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you mean if its 24MP or more and full frame right ?

 

Yes, I was kind of taking that for granted... although it could be Leica's version of the A7s as well... given the rumored low light capabilities this could actually also make sense... We will know soon I guess...

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Having read everything written so far, and owning an M10 and an SL that I use (a lot) mostly with many M lenses. I have a few thoughts:

 

The size of the SL camera is currently fine, but could be made smaller (of course) in the new camera.

 

The SL zoom lens barrel's large diameter has very little to do with the optical physics of the L-mount design (except right where the lens barrel joins the camera). It is the result of the stepping motors, the circuit boards, and microprocessors for the AF, the iris blades, and the IS (if present). As well as the weather sealing "O" rings.

 

The next generation of stepping motors, circuit boards, and microprocessors is always smaller (and more integrated) than the last. so that progress alone can shrink the next generation of L-mount lenses. 

 

I do miss the M lens focus and aperture calibration markings on the SL zoom lens barrels... 

 

Making these different design decisions in the new L lenses (and new camera body) could greatly change the size weight and handling convenience of the new camera, and still keep it compatible with its siblings. 

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'Outstanding low light …' could mean that the new sensor does not have 'high pixel density' - because 'low pixel density' offers better low light performance.

 

Considering that every single full frame camera after the M9 was announced with having much better high ISO / low light performance I doubt we will get to see more than the usual slight improvements. Which get smaller in every generation.

 

If Leica would make a large pixel / low Megapixel count camera I would expect them to make a spawn from the main series.

 

I rather expect something like the new sensor being backlit, for the ca 30% of performance improvement you get from that. Wasnt Leica rumored to use TowerJazz sensors as well, just like Nikon for the D850 ? But the gain is like one third of a stop. Great - but not a massive improvement.

 

 

I would expect a smaller SL instead. Leica did it with the R4 already.

 

I expect slightly smaller and also a bit cheaper, yes.

 

I fail to see the relevance of any size improvements on old film cameras. Thats a completely different technological problem.

 

 

 

Am I the only one who now finds Leica's various offerings very confusing? To be further complicated by yet another body.

 

Not more confusing than the naming schemes of pretty much any other company, no.

 

 

 

Then how do you explain that a lot of people get good results with M-lenses on the SL? Sure, the results are perhaps not as good as with using SL lenses, but apparently good enough for quite a lot people. Even Leica endorsed the use of M-lenses on the SL when the SL was introduced. 

 

I'm sure you can also get quite decent results with Sony, especially if you convert them to a thinner sensor stack.

 

Still why the SL sensor wasnt prepared for steep angles of incidence of the light just like the Leica M eludes me.

 

And why would anyone want to tolerate loss of quality in the first place ?

 

 

 

I would love to see a new Leica camera (whatever the name) with the size of Q (or up to size of M10), with native M mount and SL quality EVF. Willing to give up AF to get the native M mount finetuned for those sweet super high quality M lenses. Of course, that's probably the least likely announcement Leica will ever make, after all the talk about the L mount being the future.

 

I strongly doubt thats technologically possible. The really good EVFs need some amount of space for the necessary optics. If you get a Q sized camera, you get a Q quality EVF.

 

See for example this link: https://www.heise.de/select/ct-foto/2016/2/1456481975214685 - there is one image that shows the innards of the camera. You can clearly see how the EVF requires the whole depth of the space of the SLR bump of the camera. You want the same quality, you need the necessary space.

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Perhaps this one ? its says updated April 28th
 
 

軒下デジカメ情報局に、最近認証機関に登録されたライカのコードネーム「1546」のカメラに関する続報が掲載されています。

 先日登録されたライカ未発表機種の型番は「1546」、製造は「Panasonic AVC Networks Xiamen Co., Ltd」になるようだ。未発表ACアダプター「ACA-DC16-E」も同日に登録された。
・認証機関に登録されている未発表機種まとめ(4月28日更新版)

    1546
    - Wi-Fi・Bluetooth搭載
    - パナソニックのTX2やGX7MK3と同じ無線部品
    - (サンプル機の)製造:Panasonic AVC Networks Xiamen Co., Ltd.
    ACA-DC16-E
    - デジタルカメラ用ACアダプター
    ライカは最近「Q2」の商標を登録しているので、ライカQ後継機も開発していそう。(他にもM10と同時期に登録された「M11」等が商標登録されている)。
   
レンズ一体型のカメラでしょうか。
 
 
 
>>>>>>


 The model number of the Leica unreleased model registered the other day is "1546", the manufacture seems to be "Panasonic AVC Networks Xiamen Co., Ltd". A new AC adapter "ACA - DC16 - E" was also registered on the same day.
 (Updated on 28th April)

    
1546
    
- Wi-Fi · Bluetooth installed
    
- The same radio parts as TX 2 and GX 7 MK 3 of Panasonic
    
- (Sample machine) Manufacture: Panasonic AVC Networks Xiamen Co., Ltd.
    
ACA-DC 16-E
    
- AC Adapter for Digital Camera
    
Since Leica recently registered the trademark of "Q2", he seems to be developing a Leica Q successor. (Other trademarked "M11" etc. registered at the same time as M10 are registered).

 
 
  so it seems to be a lens-integrated camera?
 
 
 

 We will know soon I guess...

 

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Still why the SL sensor wasnt prepared for steep angles of incidence of the light just like the Leica M eludes me.

 

 

 

 

 

Err... The SL sensor IS adapted to M lenses by steeper and higher microlenses. Leica clearly said so at introduction, complete with diagrams.

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Err... The SL sensor IS adapted to M lenses by steeper and higher microlenses. Leica clearly said so at introduction, complete with diagrams.

 

Would you have a link to those diagrams? Just curious.

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Just read a bit here. I wonder, who is waiting for this new camera? To stay competetive, they would have to announce a FF GFX50s with more than 24MPix. But Leica seems not listening to landscape photographers ...

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I expect slightly smaller and also a bit cheaper, yes.

I fail to see the relevance of any size improvements on old film cameras. Thats a completely different technological problem. [...]

 

Not sure if the R4 was cheaper than the R3 but i was just recalling that Leica did happen to reduce the size of its cameras in the past. They changed their mind with R8 and R9 though with the success we know. BTW modern technology allows for smaller digital cameras than film ones fortunately. I was proud of the compactness of my old R4s for instance but my A7s mod looks somewhat like a dwarf by comparison.  

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Would you have a link to those diagrams? Just curious.

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Not sure if the R4 was cheaper than the R3 but i was just recalling that Leica did happen to reduce the size of its cameras in the past. They changed their mind with R8 and R9 though with the success we know. BTW modern technology allows for smaller digital cameras than film ones fortunately. I was proud of the compactness of my old R4s for instance but my A7s mod looks somewhat like a dwarf by comparison.  

Actually, the "success" of the R8 and R9 is what drove Leica into near-bankruptcy... They sunk all their R&D budget into these cameras and didn't sell the number they hoped for.

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Actually, the "success" of the R8 and R9 is what drove Leica into near-bankruptcy... They sunk all their R&D budget into these cameras and didn't sell the number they hoped for.

 

Been there, i could not say it better. Leica had not the same excuse as for the original SL which was smaller that its Contarex competitor if memory serves. Now we have a digital SL the same size as an Hasselblad.... No problem if it sells but does it actually?  History is not repeating itself hopefully.

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i have never seen diagrams of the SL sensor..did Leica actually reveal those ?

 

Neither do i. What was said at the launch of the SL is that it is designed for L lenses and adapted for M ones if memory serves. Main result being that corners are generally softer on the SL than on M cameras, at fast apertures at least. I have no experience with the SL though, for this very reason besides the bulk of the camera and the lack of auto zoom with M lenses, but Sean Read did interesting comparos on his site if i remember well.

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  • Leica has three current interchangeable lens mounts: M, L, and S, and one discontinued reflex mount, R.
  • They offer M bodies (M lenses); SL, CL & TL bodies (L lenses); and S (S lenses) bodies for them. 
  • Through adapters: they allow M bodies to be used with R lenses, and M, R, and S lenses to be use with SL, CL, TL bodies.
  • The different bodies offer different form factors, sensor sizes, control paradigms, and features.
  • All other Leica cameras are fixed lens models, e.g.: Q, X, X Vario, etc.

I don't know what's so confusing about that. It seems simple and rational to me, a comprehensive system of lenses and cameras. 

 

If the rumored CM is a full frame version of the CL body—to wit, a full-frame Q with interchangeable lenses, or a "modern" M with an EVF rather than a rangefinder—it is what a large percentage of the people on this forum and others have been saying they want. It would make good sense for Leica to offer it. I would imagine it's more the former, with an L mount, rather than the latter, with an M mount, since L mount is adaptable to M lenses and not the other way around. 

 

I'm happy with what I have already; I will wait to see what Leica offers and evaluate whether it poses any advantage to me once it is clear what it is. :D

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I love my SL and only use it with M glass (I don't get along with autofocus), and I would be ecstatic to have a more compact version that doesn't look as silly with a 35mm Summicron mounted. At this point I have pretty much abandoned the M... The SL is like a manual focus SLR but with M lenses, which for me is perfect.

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[...] If it were the camera we all wanted..it would take sales from the other lines..

 

Not sure for all of us but if it were a camera i want it would take zero sale from Leica and perhaps one sale from Sony. 

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