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A least light-hearted.

 

So, does people raising  their hand when requested  at a gathering amount  to approval or not? I would say it does, and it would not be recording individual data, as it is anonymized by the counting.

Even if I may not record that Andreas raised his hand, I may record that 59 out of 80 persons did. Which makes for the interesting implication that a unanimous vote may not be recorded if one person objects. Clearly ridiculous and thus not the intention of this law.

Jaap, I can take light-hearted and tongue in cheek posts not beyond two or three contributions, I don’t know how to follow up in this anymore and still stay light hearted. So I give in........

 

Still friends?

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By all means :) :)

 

In this forum we are like this. (these little fellas were rescued from our pool and on their way to the garden pond :) )

 

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Some of my German colleagues would feel annoyed or amused if called them Dr so i call them Mr the same was as they do with me. There are no rules about titles on the Leica forum anyway hopefully.

No, but in the context of the post referred to the omission was clearly pejorative.

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Leaving aside the 'what will be announced', the 'when it will be announced' will be 20.00 today CET and 19.00 today BST. I suggest that further unnecessary argument should also be suspended until that time.

 

William

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How are people so sure there’s no additional announcements given that the Leitz Park opening event is still 6.5 hours away? Or are we simply lowering our expectations to increase our happiness regardless of the outcome? :)

Edited by onasj
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No, but in the context of the post referred to the omission was clearly pejorative.

I somehow dont agree with this.

 

As this is, mostly, light hearted debate omitting title when referring to Dr. K may not be pejorative, besides not everybody is familiar with European academic etiquette or Dr. K entitlements or care enough about it.  On the other hand I would consider stating of the title "Herr Dr" more pejorative especially in the context of the recent rumours like LULA interview where 14 June was mentioned as a big L announcement day, instead we got watch announcement.

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You and I live in an informal society. :) Not everybody does. There is nothing wrong with a bit of courtesy.

Title etiquette is weird in some ways. In scientific papers it is customary to omit titles when quoting or responding, on the assumption that if the other party weren't qualified, he wouldn't be quoted. However, addressing the same person directly, one would be "Herr Professor Dr. Dr."ing.

 

One time I have to agree with jaapv. It is nevertheless a big grey zone how academic titles are applied. And is very country-specific, too - I have a Dr. rer. nat. from Germany but live since > 15 years in the US. In Germany the given title belongs to the last name. Addressing a person with the title is formally the correct way in Germany. Informally when people know each other better, titles are omitted. Very different story in the US. Academic titles (PhD) do not belong to the name. Titles are omitted most of the time and people address each other with the first name even in formal matters. There are exemptions though. Academic advisors can be addressed as "Dr. ....". I have seen this when working at a big known University at the East Coast whereas this never happened at the West Coast. In company environments, titles are mostly omitted to bring purposely people on the same level when working with each other. On email signatures on the other hand, titles again are stated. Medical doctor degrees are always added to the name also in the US. 

To add to this, sometimes scientists fall into the trap of converting PhD to Dr on business cards when going abroad to Germany for example. Legally in Germany a PhD is not the same as a Dr. even from a scientific workflow point of view it is the same. 

Edited by Martin B
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One contributor to a magazine for which I do editing work, always adds his university qualifications to his emails. Amuses me!

 

 

Me too (having some academic titles myself - that I am fully comfortable hiding, and certainly not displaying, but we are all different).

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I somehow dont agree with this.

 

As this is, mostly, light hearted debate omitting title when referring to Dr. K may not be pejorative, besides not everybody is familiar with European academic etiquette or Dr. K entitlements or care enough about it.  On the other hand I would consider stating of the title "Herr Dr" more pejorative especially in the context of the recent rumours like LULA interview where 14 June was mentioned as a big L announcement day, instead we got watch announcement.

I learnt this at an early age. My parents rented a holiday house in Austria from the local head school master. The conversations between the house owner and my father sounded so weird to my young Dutch ears that I remember them to this day. They would address one another as Herr Hochschulprofessor and Herr Universitätsprofessor with each sentence. Even now, going skiing in South Tyrol, Italy, I hide my profession to avoid being called "Dottore", especially as I don't want to be confused with a Commedia dell'Arte character. :D

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Frequently when answering the phone and seeing the caller ID display, or when calling others, I'll address them as "Dr.(insert their surname)," which at least in the US generally amuses them, more often women than men since gender stereotypes assume men will have that title far more often than women.  This has led to some of them always addressing me as "doctor," which I am not, and no amount of adolescent playing doctor qualifies me for that title.  By the way, I've never addressed a colleague with the surname of "Nurse" as "Doctor Nurse."

 

The late Isaac Asimov, best known for his Sci-Fi writing, but also a most accessible science writer and competent writer of mystery short stories (In collections called The Black Widowers Club, I think) used to belong to a social club where all the members would address one another as doctor.  He did hold a doctorate.  In 1972, when the book, The Sensual Man, by M became a best seller and spawned a movie of the same title, Asimov appeared on a talk show as the author of The Sensual Dirty Old Man by Dr. A, and came onto stage seeming to be wearing a mask, but when the camera zoomed it we saw the mask was actually a black bra with eye holes cut in it.

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I learnt this at an early age. My parents rented a holiday house in Austria from the local head school master. The conversations between the house owner and my father sounded so weird to my young Dutch ears that I remember them to this day. They would address one another as Herr Hochschulprofessor and Herr Universitätsprofessor with each sentence. Even now, going skiing in South Tyrol, Italy, I hide my profession to avoid being called "Dottore", especially as I don't want to be associated with a Commedia dell'Arte character. :D

I know exactly what you mean. Place where i came from we always looked at Germanic instance on titles as overbearing BS.

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When buying a house I had to visit a notary. He had all his diplomas in frames on the walls. The most baroque, gold leafed, ornate diploma was for typing proficiency. Wasn’t sure whether to call him Maitre le Dactylographe.

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Well that is really exciting.

I must get on the phone straight away to reserve my LeitzPark embossed leather camera, or is that watch, or fountain pen, or...not.

Edited by MarkP
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