jdlaing Posted March 8, 2018 Share #21 Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) What do you think Leica's rationale is for the zinc undercoat? . It holds the paint or coating better better. Edited March 8, 2018 by jdlaing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 Hi jdlaing, Take a look here M10 brasses quickly?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
derleicaman Posted March 8, 2018 Share #22 Posted March 8, 2018 It’s a zinc base coat. No its not zinc. The late M4-P and M6 used a cast zinc top cover. This was a cost cutting measure after the original dies were worn out which Leica originally used from the M3 to the M5 and M4-2. With the advent of CNC machining, all top covers going back to the M6TTL were made of brass again. Leica no longer needed to form the top plates from deep pressing sheet brass over very expensive dies. The black chrome plating which has been in use since the M5 has several layers on top of the brass, with black chrome being the last plating applied. There is an intermediate plating of nickel, which is the silverish color you are seeing. When I specced the black paint finish on the original LHSA Black Paint M6TTL cameras, we were going for the classic "brassing" effect of the original black paint Leicas. This comes after many years of use and is much more attractive than the dusty gray wear exhibited by the black chrome finished cameras. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 8, 2018 Share #23 Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) No its not zinc. The late M4-P and M6 used a cast zinc top cover. This was a cost cutting measure after the original dies were worn out which Leica originally used from the M3 to the M5 and M4-2. With the advent of CNC machining, all top covers going back to the M6TTL were made of brass again. Leica no longer needed to form the top plates from deep pressing sheet brass over very expensive dies. The black chrome plating which has been in use since the M5 has several layers on top of the brass, with black chrome being the last plating applied. There is an intermediate plating of nickel, which is the silverish color you are seeing. When I specced the black paint finish on the original LHSA Black Paint M6TTL cameras, we were going for the classic "brassing" effect of the original black paint Leicas. This comes after many years of use and is much more attractive than the dusty gray wear exhibited by the black chrome finished cameras. Zinc base coat is not the same a zinc top plate. It’s like a zinc laden primer. I know damn well it’s not a zinc top plate. It’s not nickel plated either. Edited March 8, 2018 by jdlaing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 8, 2018 Share #24 Posted March 8, 2018 Black chrome is always applied on a nickel or cadmium base. A Zinc primer could never work as coating cannot function as a plating base. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 8, 2018 Share #25 Posted March 8, 2018 I don’t think the M 10 is true black chrome to begin with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 9, 2018 Share #26 Posted March 9, 2018 Black chrome is always applied on a nickel or cadmium base. A Zinc primer could never work as coating cannot function as a plating base. This. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 9, 2018 Share #27 Posted March 9, 2018 Advertisement (gone after registration) all top covers going back to the M6TTL were made of brass again. I think you'll find most M6TTL top plates are zinc too. Only the most recent production runs feature a brass top plate, including the Millennium edition and your beloved LHSA one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted March 10, 2018 Share #28 Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) This was a poor place for Leica to cut costs . You should have used clear tape from day one like we been doing for decades. Dynamite clear flexible marine tape from Amazon since we no longer can get 3M waterproof tape Edited March 10, 2018 by tobey bilek Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reciprocity Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share #29 Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) This was a poor place for Leica to cut costs . You should have used clear tape from day one like we been doing for decades. Thanks for the hindsight but I have been a professional photographer for decades, the only tape I put on my cameras is gaffers tape for doing things like taping the focus ring in place to prevent it from moving. I could honestly care less about the wear, I was just curious if it were just my camera or others are seeing it. Edited March 10, 2018 by Reciprocity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 10, 2018 Share #30 Posted March 10, 2018 I could honestly care less about the wear, I was just curious if it were just my camera or others are seeing it. I find its using them that's the problem. I have a couple of M4s which show immense wear and my M9s do (well the back up one's not so bad). But I have seen pristine M4s (and earlier models). I think that all cameras show wear its just that many are lightly and carefully used by fastidious owners, which is fine, but it does confuse us by making it appear that cameras don't wear much. If used as tools they tend to do so even though most professionals don't treat them badly . Everyday wear and tear leaves its marks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitford Posted March 10, 2018 Share #31 Posted March 10, 2018 I’ve only had my black M10 a couple months and it’s already beginning to develop a patina on the edges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted March 10, 2018 Share #32 Posted March 10, 2018 When I got my M10 I stuck some clear film in the areas where I knew the strap would rub when I did not have it in an Arte di Mano half case. The film is what you would use on an automobile in areas to protect from rocks thrown up by your tires. It sticks great so far. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/282528-m10-brasses-quickly/?do=findComment&comment=3478261'>More sharing options...
pico Posted March 10, 2018 Share #33 Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) [misunderstood. deleted response] Edited March 10, 2018 by pico Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 11, 2018 Share #34 Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) I find its using them that's the problem. I have a couple of M4s which show immense wear Some M4s were black enamel, others were the less desirable so-called black chrome. I take this opportunity once more to urge Leica to consider better coating. Edited March 11, 2018 by pico 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitford Posted March 11, 2018 Share #35 Posted March 11, 2018 Some M4s were black enamel, others were the less desirable so-called black chrome. I take this opportunity once more to urge Leica to consider better coating. They're saving the black paint for the M10-P. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 11, 2018 Share #36 Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) They're saving the black paint for the M10-P. They should make the paint better than before. I think most of us know that baked powder paint is better. If it is not then I hope Leica tells us why, Edited March 11, 2018 by pico Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_big Posted March 11, 2018 Share #37 Posted March 11, 2018 Let it show. It's not a real Leica until you see lots of brass. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert Posted March 11, 2018 Share #38 Posted March 11, 2018 When I got my M10 I stuck some clear film in the areas where I knew the strap would rub when I did not have it in an Arte di Mano half case. The film is what you would use on an automobile in areas to protect from rocks thrown up by your tires. It sticks great so far. Is this 3M tape? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 11, 2018 Share #39 Posted March 11, 2018 Is this 3M tape? If you search eBay for '3M helicopter tape' you'll find the tape Porsche used to protect the rear arches of the 944 etc. (particularly noticeable on white cars as it can yellow over time). It was originally an exotic product used to protect the leading edge of helicopter blades etc, but is now also used for protecting bicycle frames and any stuff that gets hard wear. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 11, 2018 Share #40 Posted March 11, 2018 They should make the paint better than before. I think most of us know that baked powder paint is better. If it is not then I hope Leica tells us why, Leica does use either black powder coating on standard production "black paint" cameras and what they call "soft paint" on some special editions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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