Camera decisions

[Agent M10]

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I have both the M (10) and S systems (007). My advice would be to consider the logistics of both systems for your photography. Even though I have tried hard over the years to bring the S with me when I go hiking, skiing, traveling (and I have some great shots as a result), I now tend to grab the M and 2-3 lenses for everything that involves me carrying stuff on my shoulders, especially when I travel with the family or other people and photography is not the only object of the journey. The S is now used almost exclusively in the studio. Yes, image quality is nice, but carrying the S plus 2-3 lenses on my back is not. In summary, if you normally travel alone, drive to your landscape destination and maybe hike only a short distance, you will love the S. If you (like me) normally get to shoot landscapes while traveling on holidays with family or friends, while skiing, hiking, canoeing etc and your program involves a bunch of things other than photography, then stick with the M.

 

 

Last year I traveled a lot with the S as we were putting together a magazine. I found that what works best for me is to have 3 lenses at hand, whether in some bag in the car, a Pelikan case, or whatever. I usually go out with just one lens and take whatever pictures I need with that one lens. Later on, I trade that lens out for another focal length. This does a couple of things. It makes you think about creating photographs with the one prime that's on the camera. So it gets your creative juices flowing when you didn't bring the exact lens you think you needed. Next, the S and one lens isn't all that heavy. You can cover much more subject without having something else hanging off your body. Finally, if you change focal lengths and then go out again, you'll find yourself thinking differently even though it might be the same subject matter, i.e., landscape, people, etc. Anyway, works for me. 

[alan.y]

On a recent trip to Tibet I used a Peak Design Capture clip and a couple of lens cases attached to my backpack to distribute the weight of the S, 35, 70, 180 around my shoulders and waist. I was wearing mostly the same outerwear every day and otherwise had only sundries and socks and underwear in the pack. I was sometimes panting because of the altitude, but it worked very well. Quick lens changes and no neck or shoulder or nerve pain after two weeks as I did using a shoulder bag.

Edited February 28, 2018 by alan.y

[otto.f]

Im a life long Leica M shooter.

 

1 Sell my M 240 w/lens and get a Leica S 007 & 70mm

 

I don’t see the M240 as a very typical M, but you might miss an M once stepped over to S. You can now dive into the S and buy back some cheaper M later on. The S will ask some time to get everything out of it I guess, it’s not an M in that sense.

Btw the Elmar50 is excellent for landscape, so an M4 with that lens is always affordable later on I guess.

 

I wonder what you shot lifelong with yor M because it’s not the typical landscape and portrait camera. The M is a streetcamera. In my opinion the M240 and M10, how nice they can be, are drifting away from that idea. I personally sold my M10 and went back to MM1 and M9. I’ve got film MF and LF for miticulous landscape, I like that better. Digital MF does not satisfy me from what I’ve seen thus far because it looks so digital and you still can’t change the plane of focus.

Edited February 28, 2018 by otto.f

[albertknappmd]

I have compared the 007 and the X1D and the former is far superior in handling, ergonomics and resistance to the elements...

Would suggest you purchase 006 or 007 with 70mm lens... You will not be disappointed.

 

Albert     

[Jeff S]

I have compared the 007 and the X1D and the former is far superior in handling, ergonomics and resistance to the elements...

Would suggest you purchase 006 or 007 with 70mm lens... You will not be disappointed.

 

Albert

What specific weather sealing problem did you experience with the X1D?

 

I’ve been comparing the S, SL and X1D and rate the X1D highest in form factor and comfortable portability. It also had a more initially intuitive user interface, although each can be configured to suit quite well.

 

Jeff

[Paul J]

The X1D has unbeatable ergonomics, handling, and portability in my opinion. Image quality is comparable but the the X1D certainly has the advantage. Minimal lenses at this point, though.

 

Then there's price - The X1D field kit can be had for the cost of an S 007 body...

Edited March 1, 2018 by Paul J

[Jeff S]

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Exactly.... I’m waiting for the lenses, including the zoom.

 

Jeff

[Paul J]

Exactly.... I’m waiting for the lenses, including the zoom.

 

Jeff

 

 

Me too. I'm interested in the fast 80mm as well. I think it will be hard to resist at that point and it may replace my M system too.

[Guest]

 

 

Me too. I'm interested in the fast 80mm as well. I think it will be hard to resist at that point and it may replace my M system too.

Exactly Paul........since switching to my H6D100c quite a while back, I haven't even looked at my S system (apart from installing the Xume filters and lens holders on it) An amazing system if you haven't already got it.

 

The files what I get out of the Hasselblad H6D100c are amazing...........and with everything that Hasselblad is doing with the XID it won't be long before I have one of those little puppies too............especially with the 80mm

 

I am telling myself to wait for the X2D, knowing me that is exactly what I will do. I will  wait and demo it first, I will also print files from it and make sure that the erogormics of it

matches my style of photography before I pull the trigger

 

Neil 

[Guest]

I don’t see the M240 as a very typical M, but you might miss an M once stepped over to S. You can now dive into the S and buy back some cheaper M later on. The S will ask some time to get everything out of it I guess, it’s not an M in that sense.

Btw the Elmar50 is excellent for landscape, so an M4 with that lens is always affordable later on I guess.

 

I wonder what you shot lifelong with yor M because it’s not the typical landscape and portrait camera. The M is a streetcamera. In my opinion the M240 and M10, how nice they can be, are drifting away from that idea. I personally sold my M10 and went back to MM1 and M9. I’ve got film MF and LF for miticulous landscape, I like that better. Digital MF does not satisfy me from what I’ve seen thus far because it looks so digital and you still can’t change the plane of focus.

Ott

The MM1?. Have you tried the MM2?

The reason I ask is that I too fancy getting something to screw the Noctilux onto, but cant make my mind up weather to get the MM1 or MM2. If i would listen to what my heart is saying it would be the MM1 but if I would listen to what my head is saying it would be sell the Noctilux and use that money to buy the X1D ................decisions decisions

 

Neil

[otto.f]

Ott

The MM1?. Have you tried the MM2?

The reason I ask is that I too fancy getting something to screw the Noctilux onto, but cant make my mind up weather to get the MM1 or MM2. If i would listen to what my heart is saying it would be the MM1 but if I would listen to what my head is saying it would be sell the Noctilux and use that money to buy the X1D ................decisions decisions

 

Neil

Hi Neil, still on the prowl for resolution I see.

I don’t know the MM2 from own experience because the M240etc. platform is not my thingy. From what I’ve seen here however of the MM2 I prefer the MM1 and don’t intend to sell it ever because it just has more bite. Pair it with the Elmar50 and it’s a serious competitor for the Chamonix 45-F2 with FP4 in Rodinal.

I know you owned the SL and I swapped my M10 for the SL. I’m surprised by the speed and ease of focussing M lenses on it, like Summilux75, SAA90 and APO Elmarit180R, which is also very steady in the hand.

I’m not a Noctilux man, never been, but know your excellent work with that lens, so: don’t sell it before Hasselblad has a decent set of lenses to offer for the X1D, which is not the case at the moment. Don’t decide so much before things come naturally.

Edited March 1, 2018 by otto.f

[otto.f]

Btw, don’t forget that bo-keh is nowhere so nice as on the 24x36mm format. Bo-keh in MF and LF is much sooner too vague to be called bo-keh at all, especially in the foreground

[Paul J]

Exactly Paul........since switching to my H6D100c quite a while back, I haven't even looked at my S system (apart from installing the Xume filters and lens holders on it) An amazing system if you haven't already got it.

 

The files what I get out of the Hasselblad H6D100c are amazing...........and with everything that Hasselblad is doing with the XID it won't be long before I have one of those little puppies too............especially with the 80mm

 

I am telling myself to wait for the X2D, knowing me that is exactly what I will do. I will  wait and demo it first, I will also print files from it and make sure that the erogormics of it

matches my style of photography before I pull the trigger

 

Neil 

 

 

Hey Neil, I have been shooting Phase One backs on the H as my main work horse since 2011! I'm comfortable with that system. Before that, i had Phase One even longer on the V system.

 

But I need a small camera too which is why I have the M. But at this rate the X is likely going to replace my M. Not sure if that will be the X1 or X2 but I will take a look once the zoom and fast 80mm drops.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Paul J

[Bill W]

One other thing about the X1D are some really great discounts on the system. Not sure if this has been mentioned. It weights nothing compared to the S007. If you plan to carry it around much the X1D is a better choice. The files are remarkable. 

[Jeff S]

Yes, significant discounts at B&H (and earlier at Adorama) mentioned a week ago on a couple of other threads.

 

The portability...size, weight and ergonomics.... is indeed a huge plus for me compared to other systems, including even the smaller sensor SL when using native lenses on each.

 

Jef

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Btw, don’t forget that bo-keh is nowhere so nice as on the 24x36mm format. Bo-keh in MF and LF is much sooner too vague to be called bo-keh at all, especially in the foreground

 

Where do people come up with silly statements like this? Maybe you need to try the S 100mm f2 or the HB 100mm f2.2? Or the Sigma 85mm 1.4 Art, which completely covers the 44x33mm frame. The smoothness of how transfers from in focus to out of focus are one of the attractions of larger formats.

 

And Bokeh (Boke) is the QUALITY of the blur, not the amount of blur. Lenses like the Noctilux have less apparent DoF. That's not bokeh though.

 

Gordon

[Guest]

Where do people come up with silly statements like this? Maybe you need to try the S 100mm f2 or the HB 100mm f2.2? Or the Sigma 85mm 1.4 Art, which completely covers the 44x33mm frame. The smoothness of how transfers from in focus to out of focus are one of the attractions of larger formats.

 

And Bokeh (Boke) is the QUALITY of the blur, not the amount of blur. Lenses like the Noctilux have less apparent DoF. That's not bokeh though.

 

Gordon

thanks for that Gordon. I was going to reply earlier but decided not to as I’m in enough trouble as it is

Neil

[otto.f]

Where do people come up with silly statements like this?

In a situation where bo-keh has no objectively defined meaning but points to a quality where tastes of people can differ, like in ‘a good wine’.

[JohnBrawley]

I recently bought my first Leica S.

 

I still have my first M the M8.  I got an M-E when they were first released and just this year got an M10 too. I also shoot an M7, MP and M3.

 

Firstly, I still love my M-E, and I'm struggling to get the same kind of picture satisfaction from the much newer M10.

 

Maybe it's the CCD, or just what ever subjective choices they made with that sensor but I really love the look.

 

I say this as a preface to the Leica S purchase.

 

When the 006 was first released I was loaned one for a week while on a shoot to try out.  Knowing I could never justify one (I don't make a living from photography) I reluctantly gave it back but I was so impressed by the pictures in the kind of work I do (I'm a cinematographer).  It just cost way too much.

 

I actually tried an X1D thinking it would be an ideal camera for me, wanting a more portable spontanious camera.  I even wrote a review (with RAWs for download) here https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2017/07/20/blad-to-the-bone/

 

And I was about to buy one.  

 

Then I was offered for the same price as the X1D, a brand new old stock S006 with a 70 and 30mm lens for the same price.

 

I went back and looked at the S006 photos I'd taken a couple of year earlier and they were still very beautiful.  I felt much less excited by the X1D photos.  A few firmware quirks also bugged me.

 

But in the end the images spoke to me more from the S006.  

 

I went for the 006.  

 

Maybe it's because it has the same sensor heritage as the M-E / M9.  Even though it can't really shoot past ISO400 and it's AF sucks, (fixed by ordering a split focus screen) I now just about weep when I load the shots later. It feels a lot like a sexier better version of the M-E.

 

I suspect you can buy a decent condition 006 for not a heap of cash and still keep your M.  They make a great pair.

 

JB

Edited March 13, 2018 by JohnBrawley

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[Jeff S]

 

I actually tried an X1D thinking it would be an ideal camera for me, wanting a more portable spontanious camera. I even wrote a review (with RAWs for download) here https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2017/07/20/blad-to-the-bone/

JB

Since you wrote that, FW changes have improved performance, including blackout duration, although it’s still there.

 

At the end of the review you comment on digital ‘medium format’ sensor size, and incorrectly state that both the S and X1D are 45x30 mm. That actually only applies to the S, while the X1D is 43.8 x 32.9 mm. This 3:2 versus 4:3 aspect ratio distinction is quite important to many.... although perhaps not as much as the optical VF vs EVF.

 

I tried the S006 (and 30-90 zoom) for a week and loved the files, but found it too limiting for handholding in other than good lighting conditions. And the split prism finder half blacked out at the slower end. The faster primes would likely have served better.

 

Trade offs.

 

Jeff