Travel: NOCTILUX vs SUMMICRON

[Peter H]

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Noctis, are of course expensive to buy, which seems to drive a lot of the jealously dressed up as derision, but are ultimately cheap compared to £5k bodies a la M9/240/10 that depreciate faster than an Alfa Romeo, and end up worthless paperweights in a decade. 

 

 

Do you believe it's jealousy? Possibly out in the world it is, and it attaches to anything with the Leica name, but less likely in a Leica forum where, as you say, people routinely expend far more on cameras than the price of a lens that can be recouped pretty easily.

 

I think it's more like a reaction to the tiresome "faster is better" mantra that is so at odds with so many Leica photographers and yet still has such a grip that it feels like it distorts much of our thinking about photography. We know it's possible to make beautiful photos with a hair's breadth depth of field but I genuinely struggle to remember one that has done any more than make an initial and passing impression on me.

 

That's not a challenge, and I mean no disrespect since we all enjoy different things. I'm just attempting to explain why derision, unjust though it may be, can be quite distinct from jealousy, and most definitely is in this case.

[Paul J]

Interesting analogy though I'm not sure it's an accurate one. Perhaps it's a bit like trying to compare the artistic merit and historical importance of say Beethoven or Stravinsky with Beyonce or the Beach Boys? Maybe not. I just don't understand why you would want or need to photograph something in the dark unless it's for a very specific reason (for which the Noctiliux  is not the right tool for the job).

 

What is so intersting about the dark? Perhaps you can show me some examples of interesting or important photography taken when there is little or no light (I mean historically interesting or important, not just a picture you took one time), and where an f/0.95 apeture was required?

 

 

To me the analogy is not even a case of accuracy, it just is. I can't understand how you can separate light from dark, how you can't see the beauty and mystery in darkness. Everything in our universe is governed by light and dark, yin and yang. I'm fascinated by the dark, by what happens in it, by what it represents symbolically, by how it makes you feel. There is an entire history of art, film, photography and chiaroscuro that is coded with these things.

[Paul J]

The first time I saw pictures from a Noctilux I asked - what the hell is that lens?

 

I soon bought it and a camera to go with it.

 

I've now got a few other lenses but for me the Noctilux is THAT lens. It's why I own a Leica and it's my favourite lens of all time.

 

I don't care what it's worth anymore and no one cares I own it. Some other photographers don't even know what it is.

[Adrian Lord]

I wonder, did people expend so much energy on specious rebuttals to the raison d'etre of the first summilux when it moved prime lenses on a stop from 2.8/2.0 to 1.4? 

[geetee1972]

To me the analogy is not even a case of accuracy, it just is. I can't understand how you can separate light from dark, how you can't see the beauty and mystery in darkness. Everything in our universe is governed by light and dark, yin and yang. I'm fascinated by the dark, by what happens in it, by what it represents symbolically, by how it makes you feel. There is an entire history of art, film, photography and chiaroscuro that is coded with these things.

 

OK but you're now not talkjng about dark, you're talking about light and dark and I agree that's a wonderful subject and a very pleasing aesthetic to explore; chirascuro lighting is something of a theme in my own work as well and I also really like the way you can use dark elements of a frame to create negative space. But that's not about photographing in the dark and since you're not talking about just dark but light and dark, you don't really need a monster apeture to explore that, which gets us back to the original question of 'what is the point of the Noctilux?'

[Chuck Albertson]

That is a little bit my thinking but I don’t have any experiences with noctilux as it is very new lens for me

All the more reason to take the Summicron. The Noctilux is quite a handful to focus (literally as well as metaphorically), and having to learn how to do that while on holiday might put you off the lens entirely. I have both lenses, and rarely travel with the Noctilux. It's a great pub lens, though.

[Paul J]

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OK but you're now not talkjng about dark, you're talking about light and dark and I agree that's a wonderful subject and a very pleasing aesthetic to explore; chirascuro lighting is something of a theme in my own work as well and I also really like the way you can use dark elements of a frame to create negative space. But that's not about photographing in the dark and since you're not talking about just dark but light and dark, you don't really need a monster apeture to explore that, which gets us back to the original question of 'what is the point of the Noctilux?'

 

 

Yes I am.

 

"I'm fascinated by the dark, by what happens in it, by what it represents symbolically, by how it makes you feel. There is an entire history of art, film, photography and chiaroscuro that is coded with these things."

 

 

A Noctilux isn't just for shooting in the dark, either. It's one of the nicest rendering lenses in existence.

[Ko.Fe.]

Every time I'm taking 50 on the street I'm ending up with photos like on one of the previous pages. I'm getting not so much of the street, but portraits taken on the street. 

If this is what OP is after, then it needs to be decided what it more prevalent. Huge aperture and milky bokeh  or sharp rendering.

 

If OP wants to know what 28mm lens could do on the street, I recommend to look at Garry Winogrand work. It is available in thousand scans on-line. I think, it is at Arizona University on-line archive.

But 28mm is much more difficult to get decent street shot vs 50mm. From my practice. You really have to have some guts for 28mm on the street

 

Oh, for technicalities, f1.4 is enough for the street. I could handle it with f2.5 lens just as with f1.5 lens and film...

Edited January 22, 2018 by Ko.Fe.

[Paul J]

Every time I'm taking 50 on the street I'm ending up with photos like on one of the previous pages. I'm getting not so much of the street, but portraits taken on the street. 

If this is what OP is after, then it needs to be decided what it more prevalent. Huge aperture and milky bokeh  or sharp rendering.

 

If OP wants to know what 28mm lens could do on the street, I recommend to look at Garry Winogrand work. It is available in thousand scans on-line. I think, it is at Arizona University on-line archive.

But 28mm is much more difficult to get decent street shot vs 50mm. From my practice. You really have to have some guts for 28mm on the street

 

 

Noctilux is as sharp as the Summicron at f2 though. That's the beauty and impressive part of it. It's an everyday lens for me. If the size doesn't bother you (it doesn't bother me personally) then the Noctilux is more versatile.

[M11 for me]

Noctilux is as sharp as the Summicron at f2 though. That's the beauty and impressive part of it. It's an everyday lens for me. If the size doesn't bother you (it doesn't bother me personally) then the Noctilux is more versatile.

 

Buy a Noctilux as Paul J claims. It must be a wonderful block of iron and glass in front of your nose and eyes. Then just use that lens at a manageable aperture, e.g. f/2.0.

 

Does that make sense? Its logical indeed. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Alex U.

[garysamson]

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Here are some photos I made with a 50mm Summicron and a M-E last year in Greece.

[garysamson]

Another photo from Greece trip.

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[a.noctilux]

Gary,

lovely portraits.

 

What was the aperture used ?

 (the girl's I would say f/2, but the man ?)

 

Might be plenty of light there

not justifying to carry Noctilux.

[mmradman]

Young woman-3.jpgHere are some photos I made with a 50mm Summicron and a M-E last year in Greece.

Nice picture, pretty model, lovely OOF, must be close to the subject and max aperture, watch that nose.

For the suggested framing it would look better with 75 or 90mm

[garysamson]

Gary,

lovely portraits.

 

What was the aperture used ?

 (the girl's I would say f/2, but the man ?)

 

Might be plenty of light there

not justifying to carry Noctilux.

 

Thanks!  I'm pretty sure both photos were made at f2.8 as I am always concerned that at f2 working this close either I or the person will move out of the subject plane. 

[garysamson]

Nice picture, pretty model, lovely OOF, must be close to the subject and max aperture, watch that nose.

For the suggested framing it would look better with 75 or 90mm

Thanks! Yes, I would have much preferred  to use the 75mm but I was only carrying the 50mm Summicron that day and this photo took all of 30 seconds to make as my student were waiting for me to catch up as we walked around the city. 

[Gregm61]

If I was REALLY tied to the 50mm focal length, it might take me 8-10 months of not buying anything else but I would eventually own a Noctilux, just like many using this system and really in to the 35mm focal length eventually winds up with a Summilux FLE.

 

Hauling one around certainly couldn't be any worse/probably way easier than the days I choose to travel and tote the three f2.8 M. Zuiko zooms and 300mm f4 with my Olympus E-M1 Mark II.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Gregm61

[Peter Kilmister]

Act One: Wish to own a Noctilux 0.95, read loads of reviews in favour, pay loads of money for it, build your muscles to carry it around, feel happy, feel fulfilled. 

 

Act Two: The next step in the Opera is sadness as you realise it is a waste of space. Your viewfinder has been blocked, you couldn't focus the beast, and it doesn't love you as much as you loved it. Also it doesn't do anything for your love life. Your partner objects to the amount of money you paid and threatens to leave. You plan to sell it. 

 

Act Three: In the finale you advertise it on eBay, realise a good sum of money from someone as gullible as yourself. Then the tears drop as you see how much eBay and PayPal have charged you for the deal.

 

A simple work orchestrated to break your heart.

 

Reviews of people who have owned a 0.95 Noctilux say that is what happens. People who have had access to one with no cost say they love it.

 

Be sensible. Unless you are super rich with a very generous partner, don't consider it. The APO Summicron 2.0 is tiny in comparison and takes more rewarding photos.

 

How do I know? I wrote the Opera.

[ropo54]

Act One: Wish to own a Noctilux 0.95, read loads of reviews in favour, pay loads of money for it, build your muscles to carry it around, feel happy, feel fulfilled. 

 

Act Two: The next step in the Opera is sadness as you realise it is a waste of space. Your viewfinder has been blocked, you couldn't focus the beast, and it doesn't love you as much as you loved it. Also it doesn't do anything for your love life. Your partner objects to the amount of money you paid and threatens to leave. You plan to sell it. 

 

Act Three: In the finale you advertise it on eBay, realise a good sum of money from someone as gullible as yourself. Then the tears drop as you see how much eBay and PayPal have charged you for the deal.

 

A simple work orchestrated to break your heart.

 

Reviews of people who have owned a 0.95 Noctilux say that is what happens. People who have had access to one with no cost say they love it.

 

Be sensible. Unless you are super rich with a very generous partner, don't consider it. The APO Summicron 2.0 is tiny in comparison and takes more rewarding photos.

 

How do I know? I wrote the Opera.

 

Some great prose! (though can't say that I agree with you on the Noctilux. )

Rob 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[romualdo]

This is one of the most peculiar questions I have read on here for a while.

 

It's like saying the most important element of a piece of music is just the note itself, rather than the gaps in between them too. Or like saying the beat of a heart is more important than the gap in between beats.

Miles Davis was a master of "the gaps" - know exactly what you mean