Teetering on the Brink of Buyer's Remorse

[ShivaYash]

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I’m late to the party on this but why didn’t you buy the Q, if you liked that? You are probably speaking to the wrong crowd on this forum. Best to sell up...

 

As others have said, we can’t help you love your Leica. It’s just a camera.

 

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Edited January 6, 2018 by ShivaYash

[Johno]

I’m late to the party on this but why didn’t you buy the Q, if you liked that? You are probably speaking to the wrong crowd on this forum. Best to sell up...

As others have said, we can’t help you love your Leica. It’s just a camera.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I liked the Q enough to be curious about the M10 with a 28 mm lens. Now that I tried it I think I liked the Q better, but I'm starting to appreciate the M10. I ended up with a 28 mm summiciron f2 and an old Leica 50 mm f2 that I want to trade for a Zeiss planar before the vacation and work travel. I plan to take the Leica with 2 lenses plus my Sony RX100V for when I want the camera to think for me. Plus a go pro for under water. I'll be on the road a month, and the trip has expanded to include Taiwan, so I do not want to haul the usual 30 pounds of Nikon hardware in a Thinktank "accelerator." When I get back I'll decide whether to stay with the M10 or offload it for a titanium Q plus cash to spare.

 

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful help!

Edited January 12, 2018 by Johno

[pgh]

I think that sounds like a good plan.

My guess is you'll use the 50mm more than you think, and decide to keep the M10. 

[Alistairm]

An interesting discussion, especially the clear theme coming through that owning a Leica is about the gestalt of photography, 

 

As a long time, and many model, Porsche 911 owner that community has a very similar outlook. You either consider yourself a 911 driver or you don't. It's a way of life and experiencing a passion through a particular tool that is not for everyone. 

 

For me, I started my photography journey before autofocus was an option, and developing my own film in a darkroom - something I learned to do in high school. I guess that dates me a bit. I could never afford a Leica as a young fella and my manual focus journey ended with a pair of Canon T90s, which I loved and beat into the ground. When autofocus arrived I had an early EOS but as I could afford better cameras and lenses I moved to Nikon. The ergonomics just suited me and I was predominately shooting birds and macro, with some incidental photography thrown in. 

 

Along came the kids and my Nikon gear was great for documenting their early lives. Why wouldn't it be? It's fantastic equipment, the flash system is wonderful and there really are no excuses for getting bad results with modern DSLRS. But as the kids and work slowed down my ability to travel for bird photography, I found myself increasingly drawn to the more "painterly" lenses in Nikon's lineup. I was shooting the 58 f/1.4 (which renders gorgeously), the 105 f/2.5 AIS and the 105 f/2 DC. I was clearly looking for something more than a good MTF chart. 

 

Anyway, one of the things that comes with age, if we are lucky, is a bit more financial stability and fast forward a few years and I decided to be indulgent and buy a Leica. I'd always wanted one. I picked up a Leica M-P (typ 240) and a Summilux 35 ASPH. And fell in love. Yes, the rangefinder focusing took some getting used to, but the lens. By thunder the lens... it was exactly what I had been searching for. And it was small, and it was tactile and - after an adjustment period - I realised that for most subject matter manual focusing is an advantage. And getting the best results I ever had out of a tiny package was liberating. For this phase of my life, I'd found the camera that worked. 

 

Fast forward a bit further and I now have an M10, an SL a CL and a selection of about 20 Leica lenses, so I am addicted! I have sold all my Nikon glass except my 500 f/4 and 200 Micro and those are increasingly under threat with the CL and 90-280 SL / 60 TL Macro and the 120 S Macro. 

 

But for me the M10 and M lenses gave me the image I was looking for. The enjoyment of the experience was a bonus. Now the SL and the CL have provided a better than SLR experience by way of a brilliant EVF (I love being able to see exposure live). But for me the draw to Leica is the lenses. They deliver end results that continue to bring me great pleasure. And having an ecosystem that has a state of the art rangefinder, a DSLR replacement with an EVF and now a compact EVF camera - with lens compatibility, is the icing on the cake. (And of course there is MF to explore as well, if you have the means.) 

 

To the OP, it does sound to me like you like the Leica feel and look but may prefer an EVF to a rangefinder. You might like to consider a CL as a "Q with interchangeable lenses". In the meantime, enjoy your M10. The glass is so good that it is only a matter of time until you have a "wow" moment and those will increase as you get more used to the system and get more shots that are properly exposed and focused. 

[Johno]

As events turned I found a nice used titanium Q with extras that is in the way. So I'll have an M10 and a Q. I'm shooting the M10 with a nice used Zeiss planar I found at B&H and like that lens a lot.

 

It's unlikely I'll want to keep the M10 but the ida of having both is starting to grow on me a little. Ther is something weirdly nice about using the M10. And the Q is a good deal considering the 28 lens on it alone is worth most of the price of the camera. Especially given the macro function. The only complaint I've heard with the Q lens is it's the "wrong" focal length, but I've never heard a complaint about image quality or sharpness.

[robert blu]

...I was clearly looking for something more than a good MTF chart. ..

 

 

Love this!

robert

[appleman]

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Johno, I think you have definitely made a wrong choice, so, sell the M10 to me?  

[Guest]

As events turned I found a nice used titanium Q with extras that is in the way. So I'll have an M10 and a Q. I'm shooting the M10 with a nice used Zeiss planar I found at B&H and like that lens a lot.

 

It's unlikely I'll want to keep the M10 but the ida of having both is starting to grow on me a little. Ther is something weirdly nice about using the M10. And the Q is a good deal considering the 28 lens on it alone is worth most of the price of the camera. Especially given the macro function. The only complaint I've heard with the Q lens is it's the "wrong" focal length, but I've never heard a complaint about image quality or sharpness.

 

 

The Q and a M, ( M10 or even 240 come to that ), is a great combo'

I have the same, have used them both together on pro' and personal shoots and for me they pair extremely well.

[Johno]

Johno, I think you have definitely made a wrong choice, so, sell the M10 to me?

 

I still might sell the M10. I've been getting lenses used and handling it very carefully, so I can resell and not get hurt too bad. I'm finding I like the 50 mm Zeiss planar a lot, and I might now unload the 28 mm Summicron due to it being redundant with the Q. But who knows. The M10 is starting to grow on me having both is one solution to not being able to choose. Edited January 21, 2018 by Johno

[JohnnySeven]

Johno, I think you have definitely made a wrong choice, so, sell the M10 to me?

Jonho, I agree with appleman, you bought the wrong camera.   You can donate your M10 to a appreciative photographer who will be very eager to use and enjoy the camera. Appleman gets first dibs, but Id like to take it off your hands if he doesn't want it.  I think I'd be doing you a great service.  No?

Edited January 22, 2018 by JohnnySeven

[Johno]

Jonho, I agree with appleman, you bought the wrong camera. You can donate your M10 to a appreciative photographer who will be very eager to use and enjoy the camera. Appleman gets first dibs, but Id like to take it off your hands if he doesn't want it. I think I'd be doing you a great service. No?

 

How did sell mutate into donate?

Edited January 22, 2018 by Johno

[lct]

Late to the party sorry but my feeling is what's happening to the OP is what did or will happen to people believing that they like or may like rangefinders but realizing that they don't like composing and focusing through a little optical window that much. WYSIWYG of mirrorless cameras is a serious competitor there and electronic Visoflexes are just mediocre (to me) accessories. Some of us oldies will recall what happened when the first SLRs hit the market. Viewing then metering through the lens, what a revolution then. Now rangefinders are still alive and remain a different way of taking photographs. Not the only one, not necessarily the best but a different experience one can like... or not. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by lct

[nlk10010]

Another latecomer, enjoying this topic.

 

Not too long ago I decided I might like to acquire a Leica (to add to my Olympus and Sony equipment) as a way of returning to my youth (Leicaflex SL back in the 60s) and also when I realized that hearses don't have luggage racks ( ). I tried both a Q and a CL and, while I liked the CL, returned both. I ultimately felt that the experience of shooting with an M would give me great satisfaction. Then I realized that the cataract surgery I was about to go through would preclude my using a rangefinder. I understand there are ways one can try to accommodate this method of manual focusing but they seem painstaking and at best only partial solutions.

 

It might only have been that I "pictured" myself with that M up to my eye, carefully focusing and taking what I thought of as a classic photo, even though in reality it would have been just pedestrian (and perhaps not entirely in focus). Doesn't matter, it would have been a wonderful reality to me (and I'm sure the same is true of others). 

 

OTOH, if I focus on just the quality of output, my RX1RMII gets me some fantastic shots.

[@ndy_ellis]

As a newcomer to the M myself (luckily with decent eyesight),  I am finding with a 35mm lens that the excellent high ISO performance means that I can zone focus effectively at say f/8 in lots of light conditions.   

 

The composition advantages of the viewfinder are still there, as are the remarkable IQ and colours.

 

I hope your operation goes well.

[nlk10010]

Thanks @ndy. Zone focusing had occurred to me but I don't think using the LCD would (although I have read at least one article touting this method of focusing).

 

I guess I was hijacking the thread a bit but my point is that whether or not it makes sense to use an M is, as others have pointed out many times, very personal. On a purely objective level the Leica may be at a disadvantage, but for many using an M creates a unique environment/experience in which to both take and VIEW pictures. To someone else two photos laid out side-by-side, one taken by an M and one by, say, a Sony A9, may not look very different but to the person who took them they will. 

 

Who knows? Everybody's different. When my eyes calm down I might find a dealer who has an M10 I can practice with and I can try focusing and it all may work out fine, though likely a diopter would be needed. OTOH, I may find the M10 rangefinder experience doesn't "do it" for me, but at least then I'll know. 

[Luke_Miller]

In my case the cataract surgery is what allows me to really enjoy my Ms.  In addition to the loss of contrast due to the cataracts I also suffered from moderate astigmatism.  The surgery, using corrective lenses, corrected both conditions.  I now have the best vision since I was 18 years old and focusing an M is no longer a problem.

[JDFlood]

It can also be a question of timing. My primary emphasis for many years was composition and capturing nuances of the outdoors. So, what I appreciated were automation and high pixel count. I became very good at composing sharp photos: the automation and pixel count became high enough, I kept working on improving my photography. Which meant taking control of the more subtle aspects, So, when I purchased my M10 it was to see if that "Leica Look" first, existed and if so, did I want it. The timing was perfect, it forced me into manual focusing and concentrating on predetermining what was to be in focus and to craft the overall appearance of the photograph through rendering (lens plus processing). Sucked me in.

 

To stay interested in the pursuit of photography one must constantly get positive feedback from the output you get and move towards what it is you are trying to achieve (this may not be conscious to everyone, but it is there). So, for a long time, I was pulled along by improvements in digital cameras, with better resolution and automation. But I reached a point when I didn't need the crutch. I think Johno may be moving along that initial curve. Somewhere in one of his posts, he made some comment about his photographs not being so great. So, maybe he is like I used to be. He loves photography but is currently being encouraged by the technical aspects of greater image quality and automation. Maybe after 10 or 20 thousand really technically perfect photos, he'll also look for the next variable to take his photography to the next level and then be ready for an M10. Or maybe, his interest will remain in the mainstream quickly evolving digital realm. 

 

One thing that showed me I was ready to move on from composition was that occasionally I would read an article to the effect that you can take world-class photos with an iPhone. So, to demonstrate my knowledge I would take out my iPhone only and take a bunch of photographs with it that would wow me. I realized it is true, someone that that is good at photography can make any camera produce great output. You have to understand it's weaknesses and then work around them. 

 

JD

Edited January 23, 2018 by JDFlood

[JohnnySeven]

How did sell mutate into donate?

"Donation" is so much more noble than "sell".  I'd hate to soil the conversation with such tawdry terminology. 

[Johno]

"Donation" is so much more noble than "sell".  I'd hate to soil the conversation with such tawdry terminology.

 

'Donate' does have a more selfless connotation to it than 'sell.'

 

Thank you for helping keep this thread in the language realms to which we Leica few -- we band of brothers -- have been accustomed. For he who has shed his cash for Leica with me shall be my brother.

 

I have a newish 75 mm Summicron on the way to round out my 28/50/75 lens selection, and a Q ready to go to Hawaii and Asia with me. I will take the d850 too, with a 28-300 zoom. Period. Oh, and binoculars, tripod, go pro with water housing, regulator, mask, snorkel, fins, BC, metal detector and scoop......oh my.

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Hallo,

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[JohnnySeven]

'Donate' does have a more selfless connotation to it than 'sell.'

 

Thank you for helping keep this thread in the language realms to which we Leica few -- we band of brothers -- have been accustomed. For he who has shed his cash for Leica with me shall be my brother.

 

I have a newish 75 mm Summicron on the way to round out my 28/50/75 lens selection, and a Q ready to go to Hawaii and Asia with me. I will take the d850 too, with a 28-300 zoom. Period. Oh, and binoculars, tripod, go pro with water housing, regulator, mask, snorkel, fins, BC, metal detector and scoop......oh my.

Traveling light i see...