Leica Ends Free Sensor Replacement for M9/Monochrom Bodies

[Jeff S]

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Is it not likely that by then all old gears will have either broken down or been replaced?

Read the thread on the topic and explain that to the folks who have invested tens of thousands since the initial release, yet had multiple failures after the more recent FW release that destroyed parts.

 

Jeff

[jaapv]

Just to summarize:

There are a number of ways to look at this:

1. Leica made a commitment and should honour it. (The straight way that many of us expected from Leica )

2. Leica is still replacing the sensor for free but charging a flat fee for other work.(Is a flat fee fair?)

3. This is a digital instument long past its guaranty and it is not unreasonable that a certain sum is charged. (But it is a manufacturing defect)

4. This is a product with an ecnomical lifespan of ten years. After five years of use it is reasonable that the user pays half. (Maybe, but shouldn't it have been a gliding scale from the beginning in that case?)

 

Pick your opinion by the numbers

 

It would have been wise for Leica to be open in their reasoning. - And three months is certainly a very short adjustment period.

[jaapv]

Excuse me, I'm new here. What is "not light user" here? And users of what?

 

I would take my M4-2 anywhere any time since I purchased it. Major trips and daily trips. With temperatures varied between +40C and - 28C. I would walk with it for hours and take as many shots as I want, feel to take. I would jump with it on me into canoe at the Ontario lake and I was skating with it under snowfall at Rideau Canal.

Due to this it needs repair and service, where it is now waiting for parts. It will costs, but I don't have to send it to Leica NJ, but bring it to local independent technician.

 

Here is no way I'll use my M-E or even M8 same way. Just pictures at home and some local events and only if weather is mild.  

I'm new to this forum and I don't see many users, pictures with digital Leica cameras used as I'm using my M4-2. Just few, not many. Something like ski slopes pictures. 

 

Or is the "not light user" here is someone who is actually taking camera in hands instead of keeping it as shelf queen and taking pictures regularly? .

My M8-9-240 have been everywhere with me, from desert and rainforest to -40, and all over the world - daily.

That some of us mollycoddle their digital Ms does not mean that it goes for all of us - or even a majority.

[pedaes]

"Which independent?"

 

I think he is talking about his M4-2.

[Ko.Fe.]

Which independent? I know not one that is willing to repair digital M cameras. Anyway my M8-9-240 have been everywhere with me, from desert to -40, and all over the world - daily.

 

Gerry Smith is independent, Leica trained technician in Toronto area. I have seen costumers bringing to him digital Leica cameras, but only for RF alignment.  

 

Sorry to keep on asking, I'm still new to digital Leica M cameras. Do you have to bring your M8-9-240 for CLA due to not light use or they just like any other digital cameras from 2005 and newer just keep on working? 

[pgk]

They made a commitment, not their customers. To the best of my recollection, it was open-ended in terms of timeframe.

 

Does this clarify my point?

 

With all due respect no commitment is open-ended and its naive to think it is. If you honestly think that Leica should have committed economic suicide by issuing a full recall or undertaking to replace sensors free forever then so be it. As an owner of 2 M9s I'm glad they didn't is all I can say. I'd rather they stayed in business and offered the rest of us viable, if costly, support. I'm no longer sure what anyone really wants out of this to be honest.

[jaapv]

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Read the thread on the topic and explain that to the folks who have invested tens of thousands since the initial release, yet had multiple failures after the more recent FW release that destroyed parts.

 

Jeff

I did, and it is indeed a bit of a cockup, especially in the light of the claimed professional level of the cameras. But I got the impression the problems had been solved or are being solved right now.

[jaapv]

"Which independent?"

 

I think he is talking about his M4-2.

So do I, reason I edited the unclear sentence out.

[Go Figure]

I did, and it is indeed a bit of a cockup, especially in the light of the claimed professional level of the cameras. But I got the impression the problems had been solved or are being solved right now.

As the Australian Black Swan has shown up ... here is my swan song : 

 

I am not sure how long people here have been using Leica professionally -  even as sales reps or sponsors and sponsees .

All I can tell you comes from my own working experience with cameras I payed for.

 

First of all I want to apologize for the term "junk".

unfortunately it is a term commonly used amongst professionals in respect to equipment lacking or not reaching expected manufacturing standards,

and as such not withstanding rigorous handling or working conditions.

 

 

it all started for me

just after the M5  was scrapped

and when the production of the Cl was stopped 

(dato their biggest seller even Nyqvist had one when I met him with Bergman on Maximilian Str one morning - I still have mine, but it's 2.0/40 went blind)

 

troubles continued

when the M4-2 + Winder came out and was "Made in Abroad" and needed constant fixing - the winder Leica did not keep it's promise

when the SL2MOT turned into a filmshredding machine ( funny enough it was in Sidney that I had to fly in an outfit )

we started using modified F2s with Leica bayonets for the Telyts soon after

when the SL2 had to be sold under production cost and nobody wanted it because repairs were frequent and took forever

when the Minolta R3 - R5 were "Made in Abroad" and eating batteries and blowing shutters ( R6.2 was Made in Germany again )

when Minolta lenses were redesigned into Leica glass ( not only zooms )

when the 2.8 /280 came out and most Pros like me did not have a choice but to go back to Nikkor 2.8/300 ( @f2.8 - f4.0 the Telyt was not as sharp and it was not f2.8 )

we were shooting EPR64 at the time and so full sun was 4.5/1000 shadow 4.5/125 - pushing turned the film magenta

so it was out of the question

 

 

And continued 

when Panasonic started building Leica cameras and camera components ( although we greeted the innovation at first )

I did not get into the R8 or R9 because of that so I have now knowledge about them

then the speed dial on the M6TTL was reversed

then in 2004 my German camera dealer did not want to put me on a hypothetic digital M8 list > said the company would not survive 

then I found out that my M8 had a none fixable internal reflexion problem even a Leica sponsored US colleague of mine called "green sh#t  (I still have 2 cameras )

I do not even get into details like the shutter ( I had to replace it 2x)  or the none working back wheel or the stuck off/on switch causing shutter release problems.

When I remarked to them that live view would be an asset : they told me it would not fit Leica philosophy.

 

then the M9 came out 

on 2x M8 + 2x M9 I spent $27000 alone

8 years on it's problems were still not amicably resolved

and yes, I have one corrosion M9 ( but since it takes 4months I did not bother sending it in )

 

 

By all means erase me  and  your problems will stay.

 

Best regards,

 

 

P.S. this is the short version

 

P.P.S. would you please mention the moderator 

           who can provide me with information on how to unregister form this forum - thank you so much !

[Ecar]

With all due respect no commitment is open-ended and its naive to think it is. If you honestly think that Leica should have committed economic suicide by issuing a full recall or undertaking to replace sensors free forever then so be it. As an owner of 2 M9s I'm glad they didn't is all I can say. I'd rather they stayed in business and offered the rest of us viable, if costly, support. I'm no longer sure what anyone really wants out of this to be honest.

 

With all due respect, I think that quoting only a portion of my post is a bit disingenuous...

I'll leave it at that if you don't mind.

[pgk]

So I ask my question again. Apart from moaning about Leica, what do people actually want? If everyone agreed on an acceptable solution and argued the case with Leica then perhaps they would listen. But the idea of a 'forever' repair is simply not going to happen (and never was).

[jaapv]

 

As the Australian Black Swan has shown up ... here is my swan song : 

 

I am not sure how long people here have been using Leica professionally -  even as sales reps or sponsors and sponsees .

All I can tell you comes from my own working experience with cameras I payed for.

 

First of all I want to apologize for the term "junk".

unfortunately it is a term commonly used amongst professionals in respect to equipment lacking or not reaching expected manufacturing standards,

and as such not withstanding rigorous handling or working conditions.

 

 

it all started for me

just after the M5  was scrapped

and when the production of the Cl was stopped 

(dato their biggest seller even Nyqvist had one when I met him with Bergman on Maximilian Str one morning - I still have mine, but it's 2.0/40 went blind)

 

troubles continued

when the M4-2 + Winder came out and was "Made in Abroad" and needed constant fixing - the winder Leica did not keep it's promise

when the SL2MOT turned into a filmshredding machine ( funny enough it was in Sidney that I had to fly in an outfit )

we started using modified F2s with Leica bayonets for the Telyts soon after

when the SL2 had to be sold under production cost and nobody wanted it because repairs were frequent and took forever

when the Minolta R3 - R5 were "Made in Abroad" and eating batteries and blowing shutters ( R6.2 was Made in Germany again )

when Minolta lenses were redesigned into Leica glass ( not only zooms )

when the 2.8 /280 came out and most Pros like me did not have a choice but to go back to Nikkor 2.8/300 ( @f2.8 - f4.0 the Telyt was not as sharp and it was not f2.8 )

we were shooting EPR64 at the time and so full sun was 4.5/1000 shadow 4.5/125 - pushing turned the film magenta

so it was out of the question

 

 

And continued 

when Panasonic started building Leica cameras and camera components ( although we greeted the innovation at first )

I did not get into the R8 or R9 because of that so I have now knowledge about them

then the speed dial on the M6TTL was reversed

then in 2004 my German camera dealer did not want to put me on a hypothetic digital M8 list > said the company would not survive 

then I found out that my M8 had a none fixable internal reflexion problem even a Leica sponsored US colleague of mine called "green sh#t  (I still have 2 cameras )

I do not even get into details like the shutter ( I had to replace it 2x)  or the none working back wheel or the stuck off/on switch causing shutter release problems.

When I remarked to them that live view would be an asset : they told me it would not fit Leica philosophy.

 

then the M9 came out 

on 2x M8 + 2x M9 I spent $27000 alone

8 years on it's problems were still not amicably resolved

and yes, I have one corrosion M9 ( but since it takes 4months I did not bother sending it in )

 

 

By all means erase me  and  your problems will stay.

 

Best regards,

 

 

P.S. this is the short version

 

P.P.S. would you please mention the moderator 

           who can provide me with information on how to unregister form this forum - thank you so much !

 

I am a bit puzzled about the M8 "green reflection"(green blob in Leica speak) issue you mention. It was solved by a firmware update and hardware fix in Januari 2007, together with the "Scotty Beam Me Up" banding.

Live view is not possible with CCD, as soon as Leica went CMos they had live view...

[earleygallery]

Here's another way of looking at it.

 

What if Leica had said we'll replace faulty sensors free of charge but that's all you get, your camera back with a new sensor, no extended warranty but you would keep the remainder of any original warranty. BUT for an additional 700 euro or whatever, we will also refurbish the camera, fit a new covering and provide a full years warranty. I wonder how many people would moan that they're getting a free new sensor (none?) and how many would think they may as well get the refurb/cla and new warranty for the extra sum (most?).

 

Yes, Leica could have been a bit more imaginative about how to present this.

[pico]

When I find myself slipping into bitter disappointments I cope and brighten up. The older I become the easier coping becomes. Regarding the M9s, I like them so much regardless of tiny sensor defects that I have mapped the locations and heal them (even in batch) in post-processing. I can't imagine being so uptight that I have to view pixel level to find defects. Some of the angst people have amounts to microscopic issues. Tough life.

[gotium]

Excuse me for asking, but what do (legitimate) concerns with a 2009 model camera have to do with a present-day body and lenses? 

 

 

For many of us, who are not overtly wealthy, this gear is really expensive, and trust in the company supporting is critical. We make decisions based on statements from the company that they may not be aware of, and that affect us in ways that they may not understand. Going back on their word is going to affect different users in different ways. 

 

I don’t own an M9, but I do have 2 M bodies and a collection of lenses, and I worry that the company may change their support policies, or that the value may drop because of the way their policies affect other users. 

 

Just last month they raised prices on the M10 while many of us are wait-listed for the camera. Having agreed  with a dealer on a purchase price, I was informed that I will be expected to pay the new - higher - price, even though I’d agreed to buy the camera at the lower price, and was unable to because Leica could not supply it. 

 

All of this erodes trust, and has me, at least, looking to get out  of this Leica thing altogether - if I can find an alternative.

[jaapv]

Find an alternative - and go to the hassle and possible price hit of selling your gear, I suppose.

[jaapv]

Gerry Smith is independent, Leica trained technician in Toronto area. I have seen costumers bringing to him digital Leica cameras, but only for RF alignment.  

 

Sorry to keep on asking, I'm still new to digital Leica M cameras. Do you have to bring your M8-9-240 for CLA due to not light use or they just like any other digital cameras from 2005 and newer just keep on working? 

I had my film Leicas serviced yearly. My digital Ms don't get regular CLAs with similar use.

[jdlaing]

So I ask my question again. Apart from moaning about Leica, what do people actually want? If everyone agreed on an acceptable solution and argued the case with Leica then perhaps they would listen. But the idea of a 'forever' repair is simply not going to happen (and never was).

I want what is promised in the warranty. Three years against manufacturers defects.

I want repair service for ten years. I expect to pay for service after the warranty expires.

Anything over that, like what they offered for the M9 sensor problem, is a bonus.

[keithlaban.co.uk]

Trust. It has to do with trust. Plain and simple. I like to do business with people / companies I trust. Call me old-fashioned if you like.

 

As I indicated, I appreciate that a general recall may have brought the company to its knees. What is unclear in my previous post?

 

Agreed, and I'd add confidence.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Rus]

I am willing to pay for repairs and services for as long as Leica is able to service the M9.

But I also want to have the sense of security (regarding an M9 with an original sensor which is yet unaffected by the known issue) in knowing that if the defect manifests itself Leica will continue to recognise that it was their responsibility in this case and thus honour their promise with goodwill and replace the sensor with the new type one completely free of charge as they had promised in 2014.

 

After that, if the new sensor or any part of the camera is somehow damaged, I will of course be willing to pay for parts and technicians fees.