jmahto Posted March 6, 2017 Share #501 Posted March 6, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) That is is where I think we disagree, although we agree on much. I think it is way too early to know what will be available for the M10 generation of cameras. I think it is clear they made the M10 for the typical use case of the M, whether they will add the capability for extended use cases still remain to be seen. We already know that extended use for longer or extreme wide angle lenses is enhanced by the EVF. I think extended use for black and white with a monochrome is quite likely. I think extended use with a grip at some point (maybe when they introduce the P model) is also pretty likely. Extended use for video is less likely, but I still think it might happen. I think what we see in the M10 is that most extended use cases aren't included in base model--the lone exception is the EVF which is quite useful even for some M lenses--but I don't think that tells us anything about what will be available for the whole generation of cameras. We will just have to wait and see what they do. By the time the M11 comes around we will have a lot better idea of what Leica has in mind for the M series, but until then we will have to wait and see. I understand if people need certain functions that aren't satisfied by the M240 and can't wait, but I think we should all be careful about assuming that what isn't in the M10 won't be in any variant of the M10 or even added through new peripherals. I will be very surprised if nothing is added, but I have no crystal ball that tells me exactly what will and will not be added either. I was hopeful in the beginning that future M10 variants will cover video, however after looking at very clear view points in this thread against video, I am not sure anymore. If Leica indeed wants to sell M10 to nostalgic crowd (and nothing wrong with that if it is commercially successful) then video or USB in future M is very unlikely. As for myself, my M240 serves me very much for my core needs and improvements in M10 is marginal with few negatives such as battery life. For my extended use case, I have Sony (and thinking of sensor stabilized Oly). If I had continued on M9 then jumping to M10 would have been no brainer since everything is improved. In that sense M10 is true successor of M9 (and name suggests that too). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 Hi jmahto, Take a look here M10? - Sorry, no!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Steve Spencer Posted March 6, 2017 Share #502 Posted March 6, 2017 I was hopeful in the beginning that future M10 variants will cover video, however after looking at very clear view points in this thread against video, I am not sure anymore. If Leica indeed wants to sell M10 to nostalgic crowd (and nothing wrong with that if it is commercially successful) then video or USB in future M is very unlikely. As for myself, my M240 serves me very much for my core needs and improvements in M10 is marginal with few negatives such as battery life. For my extended use case, I have Sony (and thinking of sensor stabilized Oly). If I had continued on M9 then jumping to M10 would have been no brainer since everything is improved. In that sense M10 is true successor of M9 (and name suggests that too). Oh, I think they want to sell to people who are nostalgic and they will do that effectively including a likely variant without and LCD, but I think they will want to sell to others too. I will be very surprised if there isn't a grip that allows USB. A grip is an add on that a lot of people might like and it is simple to add USB and probably a PC port to that grip. And if people don't want those things they can just not buy the grip. I might not get introduced until the P model, but my guess is that it will come. Video is a lot harder to guess about in my view. I would probably require more changes and I think a separate variant of the camera. I think a lot hinges on whether they make a smaller Q sized EVF model camera with video. If they do, then I don't think we will see an M variant with video, but if they don't then I think there may be enough market for such a variant, but again that all is just a guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 7, 2017 Share #503 Posted March 7, 2017 Oh, I think they want to sell to people who are nostalgic and they will do that effectively including a likely variant without and LCD, but I think they will want to sell to others too. I will be very surprised if there isn't a grip that allows USB. A grip is an add on that a lot of people might like and it is simple to add USB and probably a PC port to that grip. And if people don't want those things they can just not buy the grip. I might not get introduced until the P model, but my guess is that it will come. Video is a lot harder to guess about in my view. I would probably require more changes and I think a separate variant of the camera. I think a lot hinges on whether they make a smaller Q sized EVF model camera with video. If they do, then I don't think we will see an M variant with video, but if they don't then I think there may be enough market for such a variant, but again that all is just a guess. I think you can rule out any kind of grip that will add any functionality to the M10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted March 7, 2017 Share #504 Posted March 7, 2017 I think you can rule out any kind of grip that will add any functionality to the M10. Why? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted March 7, 2017 Share #505 Posted March 7, 2017 With the almost universal response to the M8 LCD and M9 sensor issues, that it's an electronic device with a limited user life, I have come to view my "investment" in the Leica M system as being primarily in its fabulous lenses. I am down to 2 M cameras (M-A and vi Monochrom), and I'm unlikely to change that situation any time soon. For colour, excellent EVF and all that is not covered by the M cameras, the SL is a perfect complement to a wider Leica system. If I was looking for a colour digital M camera, then I would almost certainly jump at the M10 - it is mature, refined and well considered product which is playing to its strengths rather than trying to be everything to all photographers. It was never going to be that, and never will be. The heart of the system is the rangefinder mechanism, and that brings strengths and limitations. For those requirements outside those limitations, there is the Sl in full frame and the TL in APS-C. We are very well served, all around excellent manual focus M lenses. Excellent point. The original M3 can still be used today, 6+ decades later, with better film and lenses (i.e. IQ). Digital cameras are, as you say, electronic devices that will become obsolete in short time frame. The lenses are the magic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 7, 2017 Share #506 Posted March 7, 2017 Why?No provision in the bottom of the camera for the grip to plug into like the M240. Looks like it was eliminated. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268406-survey-interested-in-the-new-leica-m10/page-15 See post #285 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Spencer Posted March 7, 2017 Share #507 Posted March 7, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) No provision in the bottom of the camera for the grip to plug into like the M240. Looks like it was eliminated. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268406-survey-interested-in-the-new-leica-m10/page-15 See post #285 That may just be for the base model, however. It does not seem that it would be too difficult to make a variant (perhaps even the P version) that would take a grip. So, again, I think it is way too early to conclude what will and will not be available on the M10 generation of M cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 7, 2017 Share #508 Posted March 7, 2017 Das Wesentliche in all its glory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted March 7, 2017 Share #509 Posted March 7, 2017 Das Wesentliche in all its glory. We should have Bruce Lee version of M10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted March 7, 2017 Share #510 Posted March 7, 2017 In this thread: people who have never owned or used the M10, complaining about the M10. I am a member of several M10 Facebook groups, and all I see in those groups is lots of people reveling in their enjoyment in using the M10 and posting wonderful photographs taken with it. Enjoying it for what it is -- a great camera for photography. At least that's what they seem to think. Look, I get that some people are disappointed the M10 doesn't include video or a USB connection. And I have no problem with them expressing their disappointment in this forum. That's what the forum is for -- discussing Leica cameras, the good and the bad. Everyone has a different opinion and a right to speak their mind. But at some point, after its all been said over and over, and you have nothing more to say but still continue on ... well, at some point it just becomes griping for the sake of griping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted March 7, 2017 Share #511 Posted March 7, 2017 Das Wesentliche in all its glory. (I see that my last post included copyrighted pic. Thanks Jaap for removing it.) When I said we should have Bruce Lee version of M10 I was referring to his quote: "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted March 7, 2017 Share #512 Posted March 7, 2017 In this thread: people who have never owned or used the M10, complaining about the M10. I am a member of several M10 Facebook groups, and all I see in those groups is lots of people reveling in their enjoyment in using the M10 and posting wonderful photographs taken with it. Enjoying it for what it is -- a great camera for photography. At least that's what they seem to think. Look, I get that some people are disappointed the M10 doesn't include video or a USB connection. And I have no problem with them expressing their disappointment in this forum. That's what the forum is for -- discussing Leica cameras, the good and the bad. Everyone has a different opinion and a right to speak their mind. But at some point, after its all been said over and over, and you have nothing more to say but still continue on ... well, at some point it just becomes griping for the sake of griping. Griping is consistent with the title of this thread. If you want only love then start "I love my M10" thread. BTW, I am not surprised many people love M10. It is a wonderful camera in its own light. I wish it to be successful even if it is not for me. Will this make you accept criticism? Edit: I also wanted to add that many people who are griping in this thread are also enjoying whatever camera they have (M240, SL, non Leica....). It is totally irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted March 7, 2017 Share #513 Posted March 7, 2017 I suspect what Dirk was 'griping' about was the repetitious nature of gripes. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted March 7, 2017 Share #514 Posted March 7, 2017 Banning repetition would shut this forum down Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted March 8, 2017 Share #515 Posted March 8, 2017 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted March 8, 2017 Share #516 Posted March 8, 2017 We can maintain a FOG just like FAQ. Frequently Occurring Gripes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff S Posted March 8, 2017 Share #517 Posted March 8, 2017 No provision in the bottom of the camera for the grip to plug into like the M240. Looks like it was eliminated. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268406-survey-interested-in-the-new-leica-m10/page-15 See post #285 So what is the port for under the plastic piece with the SD card image? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted March 8, 2017 Share #518 Posted March 8, 2017 It's for the future multi-function hand-grip, which will give... ... auto-focus, image stabilisation, video, another couple of ISO steps, more perfect colour balance, make the camera thinner and lighter, flash socket, GPS, much longer battery life, and a tiny little lighter to light your ciggies. Oh, and cell phone capability...if you want it. It will be coming out in about 3 years time. ...all best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted March 8, 2017 Share #519 Posted March 8, 2017 Not ID'd in the manual. Could be "for future use." Could be a port used for factory testing (that's how the USB port on the M8/8 was used). IF (and that is an "if") Leica comes out with a function grip in addition to the cosmetic grip, the instructions for that may suddenly "discover" (surpise, surprise) that there is a port available, and how to access it. BTW - I didn't discover that port by chance - somewhere in the past six weeks I'd run across someone else's picture showing that cover removed, and knew it should be there. Can't find that source right now, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted March 8, 2017 Share #520 Posted March 8, 2017 So what is the port for under the plastic piece with the SD card image? Can some M10 user take a peak inside the port and see if any kind of video image is visible? .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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