david strachan Posted January 30, 2017 Share #81 Posted January 30, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) You make a good point Scott. Perhaps we all just expect too much. all best.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 30, 2017 Posted January 30, 2017 Hi david strachan, Take a look here Leica M10 vs M240, M9, M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
satureyes Posted February 3, 2017 Share #82 Posted February 3, 2017 I just added to the Google Doc - that there is GPS on the M10 if the EVF is attached. Does the grip also have GPS? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted February 3, 2017 Share #83 Posted February 3, 2017 No! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted February 3, 2017 Share #84 Posted February 3, 2017 I was an early adopter. However the M8 was a bit of a disappointment for me especially when compared to my DSLRs. Maybe the M10 is finally "The One." The M will never compete with a DSLR nor is it intended to, so if this is your criteria you will be just as disappointed with the M10. If you are looking for DSLR like features, you should look at the SL not the M10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterlenz Posted February 4, 2017 Share #85 Posted February 4, 2017 The M will never compete with a DSLR nor is it intended to, so if this is your criteria you will be just as disappointed with the M10. If you are looking for DSLR like features, you should look at the SL not the M10. No! Not compete but compliment!! I have been using Leica rangefinder cameras for decades alongside SLRs (35m and medium format) as well as 4x5. Each camera type as well as model has different features, advantages and disadvantages for different shooting scenarios. There have been times when I have done minimalist thing such as while traveling during winter (5 hours of daylight) - I Several times I used just my M6 + 50/1.0 Noctilux and ISO400 B&W C41 process film. I knew I could rely on this combo. I am hoping the M10 with a different lens, now most likely my 35 Summilux ASPH, I could do the same thing. The camera needs to be demonstrated to be reliable and not suddenly stopping and going into a "coma" like my M8. I should note that I have had one dSLR die, the others though have proved to be reliable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted February 4, 2017 Share #86 Posted February 4, 2017 No! Not compete but compliment!! I have been using Leica rangefinder cameras for decades alongside SLRs (35m and medium format) as well as 4x5. Each camera type as well as model has different features, advantages and disadvantages for different shooting scenarios. There have been times when I have done minimalist thing such as while traveling during winter (5 hours of daylight) - I Several times I used just my M6 + 50/1.0 Noctilux and ISO400 B&W C41 process film. I knew I could rely on this combo. I am hoping the M10 with a different lens, now most likely my 35 Summilux ASPH, I could do the same thing. The camera needs to be demonstrated to be reliable and not suddenly stopping and going into a "coma" like my M8. I should note that I have had one dSLR die, the others though have proved to be reliable. You will have to wait a couple of years if this is what you want to know. Asking questions here now will not help you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted February 4, 2017 Share #87 Posted February 4, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) No! Not compete but compliment!! I have been using Leica rangefinder cameras for decades alongside SLRs (35m and medium format) as well as 4x5. Each camera type as well as model has different features, advantages and disadvantages for different shooting scenarios. There have been times when I have done minimalist thing such as while traveling during winter (5 hours of daylight) - I Several times I used just my M6 + 50/1.0 Noctilux and ISO400 B&W C41 process film. I knew I could rely on this combo. I am hoping the M10 with a different lens, now most likely my 35 Summilux ASPH, I could do the same thing. The camera needs to be demonstrated to be reliable and not suddenly stopping and going into a "coma" like my M8. I should note that I have had one dSLR die, the others though have proved to be reliable. I think all digital cameras, because of their extensive dependence upon software and electronics, are subject to occasional unexpected/unintended behavior. Usually, these are minor annoyances, quickly resolved. If you're waiting for a digital camera - of any brand - that is as dead-certain reliable as a purely mechanical camera, you will probably have a very long wait, indeed. I've owned each generation of Leica's digital M's, since the M8 - and their film M's before that. My observation is that each generation has become more refined, more predictable, and a greater pleasure to use. The M240-generation was already quite solid... and miles ahead of the M8. I suspect the M10 will prove to be excellent in that regard. And with its new, svelte form factor I feel like it's coming home. Go ahead and pull the trigger. I think you'll be delighted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted February 4, 2017 Share #88 Posted February 4, 2017 No! Not compete but compliment!! I checked out your website. Wonderful and unique images. But I do, with all respect, suggest that fully immersing an M10 in an Alaskan stream for hours on end will end in disappointment. And not for the fish. Some years ago I capsized a canoe with an Olympus OM1 on board. After returning it to the place of its birth for a post mortem, a nice gentlemen named Mr. Fuji sent me a terse note advising that the poor box was "beyond economical repair." A cautionary tale.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olgierdc Posted February 4, 2017 Share #89 Posted February 4, 2017 Crazy comparison On the left M240 - on right M10. Took with different colour checker and lens. If somebody have these two cameras and Colour Checker??? Both picture with native sharpness and noise reduction coming from Lightroom (embedded in dng file of M10) and set the same way for M240 in given ISO. M240 - 1600 ISO Amount Sharpening – 25 Noise reduction luminance – 25 Noise reduction colour – 25 M10 - 6400 ISO Amount Sharpening – 25 Noise reduction luminance – 20 Noise reduction colour – 25 One can see differences in colour (especially skin – second row and second column). Pictures are white balanced on the fourth grey square at bottom row. The main task was to find real difference in EV. Why I applied noise reduction? Well, mainly each of us try to find balance between noise and sharpness in the final picture. M10 is a little noisier with 2 EV difference, but I found that M10 has less colour noise. So, c.a. 1.8 EV difference between cameras with better cancelling/reduction colour noise in M10? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268384-leica-m10-vs-m240-m9-m8/?do=findComment&comment=3204506'>More sharing options...
olgierdc Posted February 4, 2017 Share #90 Posted February 4, 2017 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted February 4, 2017 Share #91 Posted February 4, 2017 Crazy comparison On the left M240 - on right M10. Took with different colour checker and lens. If somebody have these two cameras and Colour Checker??? Both picture with native sharpness and noise reduction coming from Lightroom (embedded in dng file of M10) and set the same way for M240 in given ISO. M240 - 1600 ISO Amount Sharpening – 25 Noise reduction luminance – 25 Noise reduction colour – 25 M10 - 6400 ISO Amount Sharpening – 25 Noise reduction luminance – 20 Noise reduction colour – 25 One can see differences in colour (especially skin – second row and second column). Pictures are white balanced on the fourth grey square at bottom row. The main task was to find real difference in EV. Why I applied noise reduction? Well, mainly each of us try to find balance between noise and sharpness in the final picture. M10 is a little noisier with 2 EV difference, but I found that M10 has less colour noise. So, c.a. 1.8 EV difference between cameras with better cancelling/reduction colour noise in M10? Not sure what I should notice? Both look same to me. Are you showing that M10(@6400) =equiv= M240(@1600) ? I guess everybody has noticed 1.2 to 2 stop improvement in noise ceiling but it will be visible on 1:1 zoom and not on web sized sample. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted February 4, 2017 Share #92 Posted February 4, 2017 different iso, lens, f-stop, shutter speed, settings and even a different color chart...too many variables to be useful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olgierdc Posted February 4, 2017 Share #93 Posted February 4, 2017 Not sure what I should notice? Both look same to me. Are you showing that M10(@6400) =equiv= M240(@1600) ? I guess everybody has noticed 1.2 to 2 stop improvement in noise ceiling but it will be visible on 1:1 zoom and not on web sized sample. Yes, M10 6400 = M240 1600 (nearly). Pictures size = 100% or 1:1 zoom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olgierdc Posted February 4, 2017 Share #94 Posted February 4, 2017 different iso, lens, f-stop, shutter speed, settings and even a different color chart...too many variables to be useful Different ISO is the key. On the tripod shutter speed doesn't matter. That's why I asked if anyone has these two cameras and a color chart to perform the comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 5, 2017 Share #95 Posted February 5, 2017 Yes, M10 6400 = M240 1600 (nearly). Pictures size = 100% or 1:1 zoom ISO settings do not only affect noise, they have considerable impact on colour rendering as well. Comparing two cameras this way is meaningless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterlenz Posted February 5, 2017 Share #96 Posted February 5, 2017 I checked out your website. Wonderful and unique images. But I do, with all respect, suggest that fully immersing an M10 in an Alaskan stream for hours on end will end in disappointment. And not for the fish. Some years ago I capsized a canoe with an Olympus OM1 on board. After returning it to the place of its birth for a post mortem, a nice gentlemen named Mr. Fuji sent me a terse note advising that the poor box was "beyond economical repair." A cautionary tale.... Thank you!! I got a good laugh out of your post. While I have taken my M8 with me on some salmon outings I have not used it under water!! Leica rangefinder cameras have been used under water in underwater housings. There is a chapter on this in one of the old editions of the Leica Manual. More recently ELCAN produced water-contact lenses (somewhat analogous to Nikonos lenses that are water-contact lenses). Currently Subal is producing several underwater housings for Leica cameras including the M http://www.subal.com/a408c98c2c1/Housing/Photo_Housings/Leica_Sony/M.aspx Live view probably makes current Ms more usable than way back when. Your point about cold water is important as that would limit the amount of time I could keep camera using live view submerged before the battery died. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiggiGun Posted February 6, 2017 Share #97 Posted February 6, 2017 Hi all please find here a link to my page (text in Germain) with some direct Image comparaison between M10, 240 and 9 http://wp.me/p2dJxx-ro enjoy Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olgierdc Posted February 6, 2017 Share #98 Posted February 6, 2017 Hi all please find here a link to my page (text in Germain) with some direct Image comparaison between M10, 240 and 9 http://wp.me/p2dJxx-ro enjoy Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk What's a pity that WB is Auto, but comparison helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted February 6, 2017 Share #99 Posted February 6, 2017 For comparison here are the film camera dimensions W x H x D (from official sources) : MP: 138 × 77 × 38 mm M4/M6: 138 × 77 × 38 mm M6 TTL: 138 × 79.5 × 38 mm M7: 138 × 79.5 × 38 mm M8/M9/M-E: 139 × 80 × 37 mm (from official sources) M10 : 139 × 80 × 39 mm I can confirm using a digital vernier caliper my 1985 M6 classic is : 138mm wide (excluding strap lugs) 77mm high (from bottom plate to top, excluding angled winder on M6) 38mm depth (approx at widest point: ISO selector to lens release cowl*. measuring ISO to frameline selector will add slightly more depth) *Where one would actually hold the M6 in use it is thinner, i.e. back door to front is 34mm, and it's 36mm if battery door is included. Top plate of the M6/M4 is 33.5mm deep (excluding eye piece, flash socket, logo dot etc) The M10 is being promoted using this dimension, top plate depth coming in at 33.75mm Images found online comparing the M8/9 with the film Ms clearly show that the digital cameras are indeed much thicker, and users of both will confirm (and have complained) the M8/9 were much larger cameras. Equally the size difference between the M8/9 and M typ 240/262 seems to be negligible visually and in handling, and not the extremes the dimensions quoted present. Top view image comparing the M9-P with the M8 and M6: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevieraveon/7147063635 Top view image comparing the M typ 240 with the M9 and M6 : https://www.flickr.com/photos/boozooz/15873495901 (M9 and M 240 appear very similar in size here) Top view of M typ 240 with M6: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/50d0bee7e4b07abde4169be1/t/539b5229e4b06e3875a3e038/1402688043137/ fantastic collection - many thanks Call me mad but IMHO I think the M240 looks better with a larger lens (0.95-1.4) and the M6 with a smaller one (f2.8 - f3.8) Each to his/her own Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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