LocalHero1953 Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1261 Posted January 11, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm still a bit puzzled why ISO setting should have the same prominence as aperture and shutter speed, as it is not -as mistakenly assumed since the advent of digital- an exposure parameter. The former two determine the amount of light entering the camera <exposure>, an ISO setting is just the way the camera handles the sensor output. It would have been more logical, if a third control were needed, to add an EV compensation dial. At least that is an exposure setting.. Agreed, strictly it's not an exposure parameter. But it is just another variable one can use for controlling how your photos will look, including brightness, grain, DR etc. For outdoor daylight photography, you don't change it that often from the base ISO. But it is a useful controllable variable in low and erratic lighting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Leica M 10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Stealth3kpl Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1262 Posted January 11, 2017 It does mean fewer buttons on the back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1263 Posted January 11, 2017 But in that case having the option to assign ISO change to the thumbwheel (with a readout in the viewfinder) would have been even better. I fear that this wheel is more of a marketing gimmick than a useful addition for many users - although I do not doubt -or grudge- that many will love it. Hmm - not sure on I agree on this. I DO find myself needing to change ISO in rapidly changing light conditions (especially in urban spaces) and can see the dial as a good way of doing this so long as the detents are reasonably stiff. That iso dial makes little sense indeed. And why having removed the video button? It could have been made programmable for other purposes especially image magnification when we don't need (or like) auto magnification. But there's an image magnification button on the front of the camera if we consider the earlier Leica Rumor's image to be correct, so we don't need any other button for this purpose (and a framelines preview lever ) Less is more is less is more seems to be the current refrain on the forum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1264 Posted January 11, 2017 But in that case having the option to assign ISO change to the thumbwheel (with a readout in the viewfinder) would have been even better. I fear that this wheel is more of a marketing gimmick than a useful addition for many users - although I do not doubt -or grudge- that many will love it. I would like the ability to see at a glance what the ISO is. For many users it may be irrelevant. For many others, I suspect it will be a practical change. This isn't going to affect my decision to switch from the M240, but it is a change for the better IMO. Edit: this is another wait-and-see issue. For all we know the ISO wheel has to be lifted to turn it. The step down on the left top plate looks rather big for simply a dial that turns by applying a finger to the edge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1265 Posted January 11, 2017 Yes - but I suspect that the location of the wheel and the shape of the step are another retro design throwback to the M3, like the base plate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1266 Posted January 11, 2017 I couldn't care much for video, but I don't get it when Leica introduces dials, wheels or buttons that are not programmable. It would have been better for Leica to have introduced more programmable options. Incidentally is the M10 using a CCD sensor? Maybe that's the reason video was removed and it's called M10 and not M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1267 Posted January 11, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) [...] But there's an image magnification button on the front of the camera if we consider the earlier Leica Rumor's image to be correct, so we don't need any other button for this purpose [...] What a pleasure to press this front button with the medium finger whilst pressing the shutter release... Been there with the current M240 button. Not my idea of ergonomics i must say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1268 Posted January 11, 2017 I couldn't care much for video, but I don't get it when Leica introduces dials, wheels or buttons that are not programmable. It would have been better for Leica to have introduced more programmable options. Incidentally is the M10 using a CCD sensor? Maybe that's the reason video was removed and it's called M10 and not M. It could not feed an EVF in that case. If video is not implemented (it could easily be, the feed is there for LV and EVF) it can only be to please the Anti-Video crowd. Whether it is wise to do so is another thing. I, and quite a few others that do use video occasionally will see it as a deal-breaker. It would have been smarter to implement it in an non-intrusive manner. Maybe it is, but I do not have high hopes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1269 Posted January 11, 2017 It could not feed an EVF in that case. If video is not implemented (it could easily be, the feed is there for LV and EVF) it can only be to please the Anti-Video crowd. Whether it is wise to do so is another thing. I, and quite a few others that do use video occasionally will see it as a deal-breaker. It would have been smarter to implement it in an non-intrusive manner. Maybe it is, but I do not have high hopes. Is it certain that the M10 has a EVF? After all, if Leica can do away with the LCD display on an earlier model, why not the EVF for a more minimalistic camera? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1270 Posted January 11, 2017 Is it certain that the M10 has a EVF? After all, if Leica can do away with the LCD display on an earlier model, why not the EVF for a more minimalistic camera? Not certain at all - not even certain that it has live view (is it?). Fascinating reading this thread and realising how different peoples requirements are for what is actually a simple photographic tool (i.e. any Leica M). Something I've learned over the years is that it's really important not to make assumptions about how people use their cameras (especially assumptions about how people SHOULD use their cameras). As a software developer myself, I really have sympathies with those who have to develop firmware for something which can be used in so many different ways to so many different ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1271 Posted January 11, 2017 Leica could use this sensor :-) https://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/RED-Helium-8K-DxOMark-Sensor-Score-108-A-new-all-time-high-score2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1272 Posted January 11, 2017 Incidentally is the M10 using a CCD sensor? Maybe that's the reason video was removed and it's called M10 and not M. Probably not but that would be a ++ for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1273 Posted January 11, 2017 I couldn't care much for video, but I don't get it when Leica introduces dials, wheels or buttons that are not programmable. It would have been better for Leica to have introduced more programmable options. Incidentally is the M10 using a CCD sensor? Maybe that's the reason video was removed and it's called M10 and not M. My most hated cameras are the Sony A7 with its C1-C3 programmable buttons, closely followed by the SL with 4 nameless programmable buttons with long and short presses. The reason I shoot with the M is the analog feel and simplicity. The position of the ISO button may not be ideal but I think that it makes the camera perfect! You can shoot the whole day without going into the menu. Three dials and a shutter release button are just what I need. PS. And a focusing ring of course Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1274 Posted January 11, 2017 Not certain at all - not even certain that it has live view (is it?). Fascinating reading this thread and realising how different peoples requirements are for what is actually a simple photographic tool (i.e. any Leica M). Something I've learned over the years is that it's really important not to make assumptions about how people use their cameras (especially assumptions about how people SHOULD use their cameras). As a software developer myself, I really have sympathies with those who have to develop firmware for something which can be used in so many different ways to so many different ends. Indeed, and I am sure that questions like these have been debated endlessly by the decision makers at Leica over the years. Now that the dessign has been set iin stone I'm sure that there will be some anticipation of the reception by the customer base and market place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1275 Posted January 11, 2017 Fascinating reading this thread and realising how different peoples requirements are for what is actually a simple photographic tool (i.e. any Leica M). Unfortunately many of those "requirements" go far beyond what one could reasonably call a simple photographic tool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1276 Posted January 11, 2017 The position of the ISO button may not be ideal but I think that it makes the camera perfect! You can shoot the whole day without going into the menu. Ha ! I could do that with my FM2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1277 Posted January 11, 2017 Just for amusement, a clearly not to scale comparison does suggest that the M10 might be slightly slimmer than the M-240. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Looking at the picture, if we assume that the tripod mount is the same diameter (13mm) on each camera, then it does look as if the M10 might be a couple of mm slimmer... Don't forget though, the M6 is only 31mm according to my copy here... I'd be surprised if Leica can bring the M10 down to this sveltness! However, think of the modern Fiat 500 compared with the original! Ah - only time will tell! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Looking at the picture, if we assume that the tripod mount is the same diameter (13mm) on each camera, then it does look as if the M10 might be a couple of mm slimmer... Don't forget though, the M6 is only 31mm according to my copy here... I'd be surprised if Leica can bring the M10 down to this sveltness! However, think of the modern Fiat 500 compared with the original! Ah - only time will tell! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/266426-leica-m-10/?do=findComment&comment=3183862'>More sharing options...
rramesh Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1278 Posted January 11, 2017 Just for amusement, a clearly not to scale comparison does suggest that the M10 might be slightly slimmer than the M-240. compare_2.jpg Looking at the picture, if we assume that the tripod mount is the same diameter (13mm) on each camera, then it does look as if the M10 might be a couple of mm slimmer... Don't forget though, the M6 is only 31mm according to my copy here... I'd be surprised if Leica can bring the M10 down to this sveltness! However, think of the modern Fiat 500 compared with the original! fiat 500.jpg Ah - only time will tell! So a Type 3656 could be a 36MP CCD sensor. Hmmmm. Wonder who makes them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1279 Posted January 11, 2017 So a Type 3656 could be a 36MP CCD sensor. Hmmmm. Wonder who makes them? Typ 240 -> 24MP Typ 36xx -> ??MP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYBORA Posted January 11, 2017 Share #1280 Posted January 11, 2017 So a Type 3656 could be a 36MP CCD sensor. Hmmmm. Wonder who makes them? The question is that is there any sensor manufacturer that can produce a CCD sensor usable results at ISO 6400. As far as know , Leica is not an ISO maniac like Nikon ( D5 ) that puts 3 million ISO for marketing that gives extremely noisy photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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