Leica Summaron-28 -image thread

[animalhairs]

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Sometimes a lens can be just too small...and just a pita to use..fiddly stuff... and I don't have large hands..

I actually like small lenses though...sometimes..

But if Leica came up with a small lightweight body to mount this on..well then...that's another story entirely..maybe worth the price..

I think as an art lens..this would be cool..

But there are so many used options for less cash..

 

Good points. That said, a lot of people who are interested in using this lens probably won't be doing much fiddling with the aperture and focus.  

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[Paulus]

Sometimes a lens can be just too small...and just a pita to use..fiddly stuff... and I don't have large hands..

I actually like small lenses though...sometimes..

But if Leica came up with a small lightweight body to mount this on..well then...that's another story entirely..maybe worth the price..

I think as an art lens..this would be cool..

But there are so many used options for less cash..

I have large hands, but this isn't a problem in use with this lens IMHO. It focusses rather easy with large hands due to the lever.

[ECohen]

Except for physical size, classic appearance,and the vignette,
What are the unique qualities of this redesigned classic as compared to the Elmarit, if shot at only at 5.6 or below? Given that they are similar price. What would be the value/benefit in choosing this lens over the more versatile Elmarit?
 

Don't get me wrong I think its a cool idea but I'm not sure I understand its purpose in Leicas line up.....In full disclosure I'm thinking about a 28mm....just thinking

[lct]

 

Except for physical size, classic appearance,and the vignette,

What are the unique qualities of this redesigned classic as compared to the Elmarit, if shot at only at 5.6 or below? [...]

 

"Qualities" is a matter of tastes but the 28/5.6 has more flare and halos around highlight (aka "glow") than the 28/2.8 asph if i beleive the pics i've seen here but i have no experience with the Summaron. 

[christoph_d]

...

But there are so many used options for less cash..

... options that may harbour fungus growing on the glass... That may or may not work... That are probably not servicable by Leica any more ...

[ECohen]

"Qualities" is a matter of tastes but the 28/5.6 has more flare and halos around highlight (aka "glow") than the 28/2.8 asph if i beleive the pics i've seen here but i have no experience with the Summaron. 

 

you mean...One mans "Quality" is another mans imperfection

[lct]

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Exactly. Old story...

[A miller]

I just looked on the B&H site and was really surprised to see this lens priced at $2500, and I was even more surprised that this is $200 MORE than a brand new elmarit ASPH.   To me this is crazy!

 

I have had the original version this lens for many years never thought of it as an all purpose 28mm but rather more of a niche lens for special situations.  

 

Leica indicates that the lens element designed is based exactly on the older model, which obviously isn't an aspherical lens.  All well and good for a niche lens, but I think they are trying to prey on people's emotions with the price, which clearly has a super premium.

Perhaps their logic is that people consider the hood as big additional value given how expensive $600+ they are selling on eBay for the original lens.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-Leitz-SOOBK-12500-Hood-for-Summaron-2-8cm-28mm-F5-6-lens-Germany-/201699338708?hash=item2ef637a9d4:g:VgQAAOSwMtxXv0pc

 

This is a total farce b/c the hood is completely unnecessary.  I toiled with the idea of buying the lens for my original version for years.  I get massive GAS like the best of us.  But the more and more I used the lens the more I couldn't figure out what the hood would do for me that justifies KILLING the ergonomic and big league size advantage.  You see, the glass is set in quite a bit and so the "barrel" of the lens in a way acts as a protection against side flare.  This really only leaves flare resulting from shooting directly into the sunlight (and at a certain slight angle to the sun), which the hood won't do much for.

 

So, you see, the hood is bullshit.  Plain and simple.  People are paying for nothing when they pay $2500 for the lens kit.  Not the first time we pay for nothing with Leica.  But I'm just saying.

 

I paid $700 for my original version a few years ago (which was in mint- condition).  I don't know what they are going for now right this moment.  But given that the new version has the exact same optical design as the original, and inferior glass materials (the original was made using rare earth materials, which I don't know what these are but it sounds really sexy), I am sitting here scratching my head as to why people wouldn't just try to source a very good condition original version.    At the moment, there are grand total of THREE of these listed on eBay right now - and none are in very good condition.  That, though, doesn't mean that one will pop up in the near term. 

 

To sum up my feelings:

-I am a huge big league fan of the lens as a niche for certain situations

-Think the hood is bullshit

-Think the premium price is illogical and at some level offensive

[michaelwj]

Reading all the responses, this lens seems to be very similar to the M-A.

Yes, it's expensive for what it is on paper.

Yes, there are comparable used lenses for less

Yet despite that, it is still desirable to many people.

 

$2500 is obviously a good price point as it's selling. It is new, and only 2x what a used version costs, and the used version is over 50 years old. The M-A is well over 4x the cost of a used M2 (in chrome anyway) for example.

[ianman]

I got a 75mm Lux a few years ago at a quarter of the price they are fetching now.  I can bet that if they bring out a new 75 Lux it will cost 5 / 6 times - at least - what I paid for mine. Should I get angry at that time ?

[A miller]

Reading all the responses, this lens seems to be very similar to the M-A.

Yes, it's expensive for what it is on paper.

Yes, there are comparable used lenses for less

Yet despite that, it is still desirable to many people.

 

$2500 is obviously a good price point as it's selling. It is new, and only 2x what a used version costs, and the used version is over 50 years old. The M-A is well over 4x the cost of a used M2 (in chrome anyway) for example.

 

Fair enough, Michael.  Good points.  And I was one of the first to jump to purchase an M-A.  I see the similarities in the analogy you have raised.  I am not convinced it is an apples-to-apples comparison, though close.  The M-A is one of three remaining Leica film cameras still being sold.  And it is priced right in line with the other two (MP and M&).  Sure, people can go out and buy an old M, but that reasoning applies to the MP and M7, as the in-camera meter int he MP and M7 that doesn't exist in most of the other film Ms is really just a marketing invention crutch for the exposure-reading challenged. 

 

Perhaps I am just quibbling with the few hundred dollars that takes the cost of this lens above the cost of the aspherical version of the Elmarit.  Basically, Leica is selling an old-style imperfect lens more expensively than a newly designed close-to-perfect lens, and attributing the cost premium to the fact that the lens owner will get technically worse looking photos, as if people don't know how to use LR and PS.  

So the retro imperfection is the new perfection.. ? ...

As a film-only shooter, I don't really mind this as a general concept.   But it is the pricing and associated logic that doesn't sit well.  

 

By the way, should we now start buying up good condition IIIgs.......? (you heard it here first  )

Edited October 30, 2016 by A miller

[jaapv]

I just looked on the B&H site and was really surprised to see this lens priced at $2500, and I was even more surprised that this is $200 MORE than a brand new elmarit ASPH.   To me this is crazy!

 

I have had the original version this lens for many years never thought of it as an all purpose 28mm but rather more of a niche lens for special situations.  

 

Leica indicates that the lens element designed is based exactly on the older model, which obviously isn't an aspherical lens.  All well and good for a niche lens, but I think they are trying to prey on people's emotions with the price, which clearly has a super premium.

Perhaps their logic is that people consider the hood as big additional value given how expensive $600+ they are selling on eBay for the original lens.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-Leitz-SOOBK-12500-Hood-for-Summaron-2-8cm-28mm-F5-6-lens-Germany-/201699338708?hash=item2ef637a9d4:g:VgQAAOSwMtxXv0pc

 

This is a total farce b/c the hood is completely unnecessary.  I toiled with the idea of buying the lens for my original version for years.  I get massive GAS like the best of us.  But the more and more I used the lens the more I couldn't figure out what the hood would do for me that justifies KILLING the ergonomic and big league size advantage.  You see, the glass is set in quite a bit and so the "barrel" of the lens in a way acts as a protection against side flare.  This really only leaves flare resulting from shooting directly into the sunlight (and at a certain slight angle to the sun), which the hood won't do much for.

 

So, you see, the hood is bullshit.  Plain and simple.  People are paying for nothing when they pay $2500 for the lens kit.  Not the first time we pay for nothing with Leica.  But I'm just saying.

 

I paid $700 for my original version a few years ago (which was in mint- condition).  I don't know what they are going for now right this moment.  But given that the new version has the exact same optical design as the original, and inferior glass materials (the original was made using rare earth materials, which I don't know what these are but it sounds really sexy), I am sitting here scratching my head as to why people wouldn't just try to source a very good condition original version.    At the moment, there are grand total of THREE of these listed on eBay right now - and none are in very good condition.  That, though, doesn't mean that one will pop up in the near term. 

 

To sum up my feelings:

-I am a huge big league fan of the lens as a niche for certain situations

-Think the hood is bullshit

-Think the premium price is illogical and at some level offensive

Do you really think that fifty years technological development has resulted in inferior optical glass?

A price is crazy when an article is not selling. This is clearly selling well, so the price is obviously well-pitched. I never understood the outrage whenever people find an article more expensive than they are willing to pay. It is so simple: don't buy.

[ECohen]

This offering isn't for me ....but honestly I'm not surprised or offended by the price.

Does Leica have any new lenses for less than $2200. so whats another $200 if you want it.

Comparatively they are a small company and I'll bet its expensive to bring a new product to market.

....even if you already have the design.

 

I am sensing a collect 'em all classic set.

That I wish I could justify.....because I'd love to have them.

Edited October 30, 2016 by ECohen

[jaapv]

.

Comparatively they are a small company and I'll bet its expensive to bring a new product to market.

 

Especially if the expectation is that it will only sell in small numbers.

[A miller]

Do you really think that fifty years technological development has resulted in inferior optical glass?

A price is crazy when an article is not selling. This is clearly selling well, so the price is obviously well-pitched. I never understood the outrage whenever people find an article more expensive than they are willing to pay. It is so simple: don't buy.

 

Yes, as a technical matter, I do.  It is a fact.  Just look at the photos that are posted on Leica's website.  They are technically inferior to any len in Leica's current stable and all attempt to demonstrate borderline extreme lens vignetting, which is an effect that lens engineers spent the next 50 years after the original len's release trying to eradicate. 

The one thing the lens IS is a design magnum opus.  That is enough to justify the high price.  If it is like the original version, it is quite heavy given that is made with brass (very similar to the feel and relative weight of the 50 DR summicron).  So it doesn't make the camera feel light with fixed to the camera (I'd say even heavier than the elmarit).  But the pancake size is just sublime.

 

The Leica site is really short on details regarding the len's construction.  If it is in fact made of the superior (and more costly) materials (incl brass) as the original, that would put it at a premium to the Elmarit.  So perhaps as I talk through it out loud that is where Leica is coming from with their premium price....

[A miller]

This offering isn't for me ....but honestly I'm not surprised or offended by the price.

Does Leica have any new lenses for less than $2200. so whats another $200 if you want it.

Comparatively they are a small company and I'll bet its expensive to bring a new product to market.

....even if you already have the design.

 

I am sensing a collect 'em all classic set.

That I wish I could justify.....because I'd love to have them.

I agree with you.  $2500 is "cheap" relative to other Leica lenses.  That for sure and carries a lot of weight in the argument.  

[Jeff S]

Plus Leica not only has to make money on the lens, but they have a brand new HQ facility to fund, not to mention other likely cost structures not in play when the old lens was issued.  Still, a bargain by Leica standards.

 

Jeff

[A miller]

FWIW, another example from the original version...

Taken through thick glass of my office and also through an old Linhof orange lens filter that I manually held still while pressing the camera against it

It has been a few years since I took this, but I don't recall clearing up any lens vignetting, perhaps b/c I was stopped down to (probably) f16

 

MMv1 

 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[MarkP]

Seriously, no matter how popular it is, this will sell in very small small numbers compared with the 28 Elmarit so of course it will have a price premium.  There is no economy of scale to control price in producing this niche-within-a-niche product of limited demand and Leica is not a charity organisation.

Edited October 30, 2016 by MarkP

[jaapv]

Plus Leica not only has to make money on the lens, but they have a brand new HQ facility to fund, not to mention other likely cost structures not in play when the old lens was issued.  Still, a bargain by Leica standards.

 

J

Ummm. The Leica facility is rented, albeit from an "interesting" consortium.