New Leica SL Lenses & Roadmap!

[Vieri]

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Read again. I'd like a roadmap for lenses beyond the Summicrons, as there are no native lenses (like smaller zooms) that would further entice me to buy into the system. There is no fully weather sealed Leica system that has a range of compact primes and zooms.

 

If a company can't keep a roadmap current for a year to 18 months out, it shouldn't bother in the first place. I think Leica was pressured into it when Fuji, Hasselblad etc published theirs at about the same time. Leica moves at its own pace; not really a roadmap kind of company. In fact, communications regarding product issues in general is not a strong suit. But that's another topic discussed ad nauseam here.

 

Jeff

 

I read it very well Jeff, you just didn't say it You said it now, in this last post of yours. I can (and do) read what you write, not what you thought you wrote, but didn't...

 

Best regards,

 

Vieri

[Jeff S]

You don't read or interpret as well as you think....

 

 

I'm waiting to see, before investing in the SL system (with only native weather sealed lenses).what the future holds for smaller options beyond the announced Summicrons. A roadmap would help.

 

 

Jeff

[Vieri]

You don't read or interpret as well as you think....

 

 

Jeff

 

Jeff, you wrote that in another message, not in the one I replied to.

 

Vieri

[Jeff S]

Jeeze... when I suggested you read again, I was referring to all of my preceding posts, which included the one I quoted, just like I took the time to read all of yours.

 

In fact, this conversation started for me with your earlier comment that you always ask what can't be done with the current SL system, and that there's always deafening silence. Well, my response is that since I want small weather sealed lens options, the SL system has ZERO current options for me, not just a gap here or there. And because there is no longer term roadmap, it's not clear if my needs will be better served.

 

You can count me as not silent on your favorite question.

 

Jeff

[Vieri]

Jeeze... when I suggested you read again, I was referring to all of my preceding posts, which included the one I quoted, just like I took the time to read all of yours.

 

In fact, this conversation started for me with your earlier comment that you always ask what can't be done with the current SL system, and that there's always deafening silence. Well, my response is that since I want small weather sealed lens options, the SL system has ZERO current options for me, not just a gap here or there. And because there is no longer term roadmap, it's not clear if my needs will be better served.

 

You can count me as not silent on your favorite question.

 

Jeff

 

No, Jeff, sorry. It works like this: 

 

- get email notification telling me "Jeff S replied etc etc"

- click on link

- read message

- click quote

- write reply

 

I am sorry but when I get a notification from someone I don't read everything they have ever wrote in a thread, as strange as it might sound to you. Jeeze, you must have a very high opinion of what you write

 

About your answer, that doesn't answer my question. My question is not what you want that is not there. My question is what is it that you cannot do with the system we have now. So, can I ask what you plan on shooting with many small weather sealed lenses that you cannot shoot with one weather sealed slightly larger zoom lens?

 

Best regards,

 

Vieri

[IkarusJohn]

Oh boy. Christmas pressure building much?

 

What we have is three lenses covering 24-280 and one very good fast prime, all in the most commonly used focal lengths. These lenses have clearly had a lot of work done on them to get them exactly as Leica wanted them. The quality control on these lenses has been exceptional by Leica standards (remember the APO recalls?). So, we have a new system, and lenses to cover the core focal lengths in 35mm format.

 

Leica announces a further zoom and three primes for 2017-2018, and yes that timeline slips a bit. Is that new? No. Is that remotely unusual for a small quality, and slightly OCD company like Leica? Not at all. It heightens the anticipation. But, it’s the reason companies like Leica don’t like roadmaps.

 

When the existing three lenses were released, there was also a rush to condemn them - focus shift on the 24-90 made it unusable, the 90-280 uselessly enormous, the 50 AF too slow ... on and on it went. Meanwhile, those who thought the lenses useful bought them, used them, and loved them. While all this complaining is going on about what the system is not, users are having a great time using them for what they are.

 

The zooms aren’t fast and compact - they were never going to be. The 50 is a comparable size to similar reference lenses, and the AF is slow for a reason. If you want compact, use your M system. Seriously, all this bleating and moaning is getting really old. The existing system is absolutely fantastic between 24mm & 280mm, at f/2.8-4. A wider zoom is coming. I have not a shred of doubt it will be fabulous. Will it be wider, faster, lighter, smaller? No, but I bet it will match the other two zooms perfectly.

 

And the primes will be just as good, I’m sure. We know it takes time for Leica to get things right. The original SL and “kit” zoom took over three years. Had they announced the camera when the project started back in 2012 (when Leica released, or rather announced the M(240)), it would have created a frenzy, disappointment, excitement, doubt and condemnation in short order - it’s demise would be confirmed and the death of Leica assured by experts here before the first camera hit the shops.

 

The SL is what it is, the system does what it does very well, thank you. New lenses will come, they will be late(ish) and they’ll be worth waiting for. Further new lenses will come once this lot is done. Sit on your hands, breath through your nose and enjoy what the system is. If it doesn’t work for you, use your M sydtem or buy a Nikon.

[Jeff S]

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Vieri, my posts were minutes apart.... sorry it's hard for you to retain. I'm admittedly the opposite, remembering posts, points of view, gear choices, etc from dozens of people here over the years, much to the chagrin of some. Even yours, and your article links.

 

Back to the issue....I'd rather have one or two smaller weather sealed zooms, even if smaller range and/or slower (35-70 or 70-150 or whatever). I like to pick one lens that I can easily carry for a day. Or maybe two small primes to choose from, maybe Elmars. The 24-90 is larger and heavier than I prefer. I care about what I'm likely to use, not just what's possible as a compromise. No camera or system is perfect, but the SL has enough pluses that smaller native lenses would make an appealing package. The CL missed on the weather sealing and some controls (joystick).

 

No big deal in the big picture (so to speak)... it's just camera gear.

 

Jeff

Edited November 30, 2017 by Jeff S

[Vieri]

Vieri, my posts were minutes apart.... sorry it's hard for you to retain. I'm admittedly the opposite, remembering posts, points of view, gear choices, etc from dozens of people here over the years, much to the chagrin of some. Even yours, and your article links.

 

Back to the issue....I'd rather have one or two smaller weather sealed zooms, even if smaller range and/or slower (35-70 or 70-150 or whatever). I like to pick one lens that I can easily carry for a day. Or maybe two small primes to choose from, maybe Elmars. The 24-90 is larger and heavier than I prefer. I care about what I'm likely to use, not just what's possible as a compromise. No camera or system is perfect, but the SL has enough pluses that smaller native lenses would make an appealing package. The CL missed on the weather sealing and some controls (joystick).

 

No big deal in the big picture (so to speak)... it's just camera gear.

 

Jeff

 

Jeff, you seem not to read properly. I retain perfectly all I read and, as you, I have a very good memory. I repeat, hoping for better luck this time:

 

- get email saying "Jeff S replied etc";

- click on link;

- read Jeff S's reply; 

- click quote;

- answer.

 

AFTER that, one reads the next message. Minutes apart or not, what happens BEFORE happens before of what happens AFTER. Hope it is clear this time.

 

Back to the issue, once more you told me what you'd like to have. That has already been extremely clear from your previous posts, but thank you for reinforcing the concept. You still haven't told me what is it that you cannot do with the current system, however.

 

Best regards,

 

Vieri

Edited November 30, 2017 by Vieri

[Jeff S]

Hysterical.

 

Hard to do anything with a system that I can't comfortably carry. So I can't do anything with it.

 

Jeff

[mmradman]

With respect to recently released lenses Leica Marketing appears to have been focusing on luxury (no surprise there), resurrected Thambar and New Noctilux 75 are testament to it.

 

In terms of what could be done to cover telephoto let’s have a look at APO Modular concept.

 

From R days two lens heads are already designed, what is required for SL are three AF focusing modules to complete the set.

 

Interesting part, APO Modular appears to provide image circle suitable for medium format, we know of this as existing manual focus modules were modified to fit lenses on S camera to provid focus at infinity.

 

With common lens heads Leica could produce one set of focusing modules to fit SL and other to fit S, that would be cool and very much innovative Leica, probably better appreciated than lenses no one taking photographs really needs.

[thighslapper]

Vieri, my posts were minutes apart.... sorry it's hard for you to retain. I'm admittedly the opposite, remembering posts, points of view, gear choices, etc from dozens of people here over the years, much to the chagrin of some. Even yours, and your article links.

 

Back to the issue....I'd rather have one or two smaller weather sealed zooms, even if smaller range and/or slower (35-70 or 70-150 or whatever). I like to pick one lens that I can easily carry for a day. Or maybe two small primes to choose from, maybe Elmars. The 24-90 is larger and heavier than I prefer. I care about what I'm likely to use, not just what's possible as a compromise. No camera or system is perfect, but the SL has enough pluses that smaller native lenses would make an appealing package. The CL missed on the weather sealing and some controls (joystick).

 

No big deal in the big picture (so to speak)... it's just camera gear.

 

Jeff

 

You have the TL and CL with matching lenses to do exactly what you want. 24mpx and very similar image quality in a more compact package, fairly weather resistant if not actually weather sealed. 

 

If they made smaller lenses for the SL as you wish the rest of the Leica users who value other attributes would start moaning ... and if you want both (big full featured lenses and small portable ones) we would all be waiting forever..... 

 

I'm afraid none of us are going to get everything we want ...... and if we did the forum would vanish ...... 

 

When the world is completely ruled by computers and robots no doubt we will be able to specify exactly what we want from a menu of choices and have it custom built ..... as happens now with a fair bit of the cars we buy    

Edited November 30, 2017 by thighslapper

[Jeff S]

You have the TL and CL with matching lenses to do exactly what you want. 24mpx and very similar image quality in a more compact package, fairly weather resistant if not actually weather sealed.

 

If they made smaller lenses for the SL as you wish the rest of the Leica users who value other attributes would start moaning ... and if you want both (big full featured lenses and small portable ones) we would all be waiting forever.....

 

I'm afraid none of us are going to get everything we want ...... and if we did the forum would vanish ......

 

When the world is completely ruled by computers and robots no doubt we will be able to specify exactly what we want from a menu of choices and have it custom built ..... as happens now with a fair bit of the cars we buy

At 67, and having shot with formats from 35mm to 8x10 for over 40 years, I have a decent idea how things work, and how my needs are best served. I already wrote that no camera or system is perfect, and that cameras are not a big deal in the larger scheme of things. I have enough to keep me going and making prints for as long as health provides.

 

But this discussion was about what would prompt me to buy the SL. IQ has hardly been an issue for Leica and other brands for some time now. The viewing/ focusing system is paramount in my camera choice (Leica does it well), followed by lens line, control interface, handling and ergonomics, and reliability/service.The 24-90 comes closest for me. But I would prefer smaller, yet still weather sealed. The 90-280 is insanely good, but I know me, and at this age I wouldn't carry it enough to justify. Smaller options probably won't happen. I get it, and will survive the trauma.

 

The S and the SL are the only Leicas that meet my desires for a weather sealed system. The CL, as I understand the build, doesn't get there, I'd be happy to learn otherwise. And the lack of a joystick on the CL would significantly reduce the benefits of AF for my style shooting. Not the end of the world, but copying the SL interface would be my cup of tea.

 

Always trade offs. First world problems.

 

Jeff

Edited November 30, 2017 by Jeff S

[jaapv]

I wonder, the CL has a touch screen. Maybe it has the trick Panasonic uses: control the focus point on the touch screen with your left thumb instead of by a joystick. A feature I dislike intensely and have disabled on my cameras BTW .

[LocalHero1953]

I wonder, the CL has a touch screen. Maybe it has the trick Panasonic uses: control the focus point on the touch screen with your left thumb instead of by a joystick. A feature I dislike intensely and have disabled on my cameras BTW .

It does, same as the TL2: touch to move the focus point or touch to focus and shoot. I used it with the TL2 while shooting from the rear screen, but I won't use it on the CL at the eye.

 

Or do you mean something different? Virtual joystick?

Edited November 30, 2017 by LocalHero1953

[Jeff S]

I wonder, the CL has a touch screen. Maybe it has the trick Panasonic uses: control the focus point on the touch screen with your left thumb instead of by a joystick. A feature I dislike intensely and have disabled on my cameras BTW .

Yep, and I would hate that.

 

Jeff

[Andrew Gough]

An interesting fact, when I weigh my 24SEM, 50APO, and 90 Elmarit - each with an M-SL adapter, they weigh 1.23KG. My 24-90mm weighs 1.19kg  - UV filters installed/no hoods.

 

Dont bother arguing the prime vs zoom thing, OSS vs none, etc... Its all about perception and I am just looking at the weight.

 

I use an adapter on each lens, because I hate switching between SL lens and adapted M lenses with the adapter on the Cam , its just too slow.

 

I think that we are all frustrated at the glacial pace of Leica's lens releases for the SL, and yes they need to throw the SL lens line some love...

 

Andrew

Edited November 30, 2017 by Andrew Gough

[wlaidlaw]

I wonder, the CL has a touch screen. Maybe it has the trick Panasonic uses: control the focus point on the touch screen with your left thumb instead of by a joystick. A feature I dislike intensely and have disabled on my cameras BTW .

 

As a left eye shooter, I find my nose tends to activate touch screens at random, so I disable them as well. 

 

Wilson

[Guest VVJ]

 

Why should Leica publish a revised schedule for 2018, since we are still in 2017? I am pretty sure they will deliver the announced SL lenses in 2018.

 

I wasn't referring to the 4 lenses (75, 90, 16-35 and 35mm) that have been delayed to 2018.

 

I was referring to the wave of 5 lenses in the roadmap after that.  I would find it useful to know which focal lengths we are talking about and what the new schedule for those looks like.

[IkarusJohn]

What 5 lenses?

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[Jeff S]

He's referring to the 5 greyed out lines from the initial roadmap...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/leicarumors.com/2017/09/24/release-timeframe-on-the-new-leica-sl-lenses.aspx/amp/

 

Jeff