New Leica SL Lenses & Roadmap!

[steveBK]

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At this point my only planned purchases are of used M/R lenses, or Zeiss/Voigtlander/more esoteric options.

 

They haven't shipped a new SL lens in a year, meanwhile we get TL2, CL and an APS-C lens.

 

 

14 months ago they released a 4 lens roadmap shipping in "the next 12-18 months" and have delivered 0 lenses from it.

We don't have new dates, let alone seasons they plan to ship.

What is going on?

 

I love Leica products, but the company makes me feel like an idiot for using them, more often than not.

I won't even get into their USA service department.

[jplomley]

And today we have a 75 Noctilux for the M ahead of the Summicrons and 16-35 for the SL.  Really Leica!

Edited November 29, 2017 by jplomley

[Vieri]

I think we'll see 3 or even all 4 of the new SL lenses before next summer. I also think that first up will be the 75, then possibly 35 Summicron, and after that the 16-35mm. The latter is the only one I am personally interested in for my work as a Landscape photographer; while waiting, in the meantime I am enjoying very much working with the Voigtlander 15mm, so small and light and such great optical quality. Having the wonderful 24-90mm, I almost never miss to have anything in the 15-24 range, but I just got a second-hand 21mm Super-Elmar-M which should do the trick for those few occurrences I need it (and which will do doubling duty on my Ms as well), also so small and light a lens that you almost can't feel it in the bag. 

 

Main reason to replace the 15 and 21mm with the 16-35mm - besides optical quality, which should be stellar but we don't know anything about yet - is zoom convenience, of course, and weather sealing. Other than that, I am pretty happy with what I can do with the SL and the existing offer of native and adapted lenses. In fact, I don't think I ever missed a shot for lack of lens, really

 

Best regards,

 

Vieri

[i-Leica]

have ALL the SL lenses optical stabilization? I know only about 24-90...

[helged]

have ALL the SL lenses optical stabilization? I know only about 24-90...

The 90-280 SL is stabilised as well (not the 50-SL, though).

[tom0511]

I agree that Leica should really bring the 35/75/90 ASAP!!! And add a 28/2.0 as well please. 

[seratti]

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Regretfully (or thankfully) this thread has helped me cure my desire for an SL...for now. It feels like the SL has been a little neglected as far as native lens support. I really want the ability to adapt M lenses but also want to be able to have native lenses for AF and weather resistance when needed.

 

I think 2018 needs to be a banner year for SL lens releases otherwise I suspect many people will look elsewhere (if they haven't already). This is so frustrating. The CL is quite a nice little camera but it's being released into a pretty saturated APS-C market, whereas full-frame mirrorless Sony ILCs could actually use some competition. But what do I know, perhaps the saturated APS-C market is where the money is being made. 

[LD_50]

The camera market is a strange one. Everyone wants massive lens availability but I know very few people who shoot a wide variety of lenses.

 

Example: I know a lot of people shooting Nikon and Canon who also think Sony (and Leica) don’t offer enough lens options.

 

They typically bring up the lacking telephoto prime options for Sony and small AF primes for Leica. None of the people I know well who shoot Nikon or Canon actually own the big telephoto primes (or even rent them) and few shoot primes besides the 85/1.4. They also don’t typically buy the high end lenses. It’s usually f4 zooms and a mix of on and off brand lenses.

 

I had a Nikon kit with the 2.8 zooms: 14-24, 24-70, 70-200, the 200/2, 58/1.4, and 105 Micro and my relatively small kit was larger than most of the others I know.

 

I now shoot the SL with the three native lenses and MP with 35 and 50 Summiluxes and I’m pretty satisfied. Add a teleconverter and a macro along with the announced SL lens options and the vast array of M lenses and I would not see much else I would need.

 

The point is this:

If you make a list of what you actually shoot, all the systems work for the vast majority of photographers. Leica could certainly speed up the release of native SL lenses but the PRICE will limit the sales no matter how many they announce.

 

For all of those who post here about SL lenses being too large and heavy and not being released quickly enough, I have to think you likely don’t own the existing native lenses and you likely shoot M lenses. If that’s the case, you’re getting exactly what you started with and Leica never made any claims about the SL being a small EVF replacement for the M. The new CL and the smaller TL lenses may be a better fit.

Edited November 29, 2017 by LD_50

[seratti]

I think you raise some legitimate points about people's expectations vs actual use but regardless the reality shows there are significant holes in the line up. Where are the f2 primes for this 2 year old camera? The 35, 75, 90 are all 'coming soon' and I'm sure they are. Where is the 16-35 vario? Coming soon. A 28mm would be nice but I've not heard any news about this. All a bit late for a camera released 2 years ago. I don't think the SL is 'out of date' but there is something to be said for the lack of momentum. To me it does not inspire much confidence in the future prospects of the line. 

 

 

The camera market is a strange one. Everyone wants massive lens availability but I know very few people who shoot a wide variety of lenses.

The point is this:
If you make a list of what you actually shoot, all the systems work for the vast majority of photographers. Leica could certainly speed up the release of native SL lenses but the PRICE will limit the sales no matter how many they announce.

For all of those who post here about SL lenses being too large and heavy and not being released quickly enough, I have to think you likely don’t own the existing native lenses and you likely shoot M lenses. If that’s the case, you’re getting exactly what you started with and Leica never made any claims about the SL being a small EVF replacement for the M. The new CL and the smaller TL lenses may be a better fit.

[sillbeers15]

Regretfully (or thankfully) this thread has helped me cure my desire for an SL...for now. It feels like the SL has been a little neglected as far as native lens support. I really want the ability to adapt M lenses but also want to be able to have native lenses for AF and weather resistance when needed.

 

I think 2018 needs to be a banner year for SL lens releases otherwise I suspect many people will look elsewhere (if they haven't already). This is so frustrating. The CL is quite a nice little camera but it's being released into a pretty saturated APS-C market, whereas full-frame mirrorless Sony ILCs could actually use some competition. But what do I know, perhaps the saturated APS-C market is where the money is being made.

I’m pretty sure the SL75& 90mm will be announced in December this year, like I said in my earlier post that I saw the price list in Leica Store already printed in ink.

[Guest VVJ]

have ALL the SL lenses optical stabilization? I know only about 24-90...

 

Only the two zooms but the 3rd zoom 16-35mm (scheduled for next year but who knows...) is rumored not to have OIS which for me personally will mean no sale...

 

I don't expect any of the upcoming primes to have OIS.

Edited November 30, 2017 by JorisV

[Vieri]

The camera market is a strange one. Everyone wants massive lens availability but I know very few people who shoot a wide variety of lenses.

 

...

I had a Nikon kit with the 2.8 zooms: 14-24, 24-70, 70-200, the 200/2, 58/1.4, and 105 Micro and my relatively small kit was larger than most of the others I know.

 

...

 

If you make a list of what you actually shoot, all the systems work for the vast majority of photographers. 

 

Exactly. When I hear people complaining about Leica being slow with the release of SL native lenses (which they are, nobody is saying otherwise) I always ask: "well, what is it that you CAN'T do with the SL system as it is now?". I generally get a deafening silence, or renewed complains about Leica being slow...

 

In truth, between the 3 native SL lenses, adapted M lenses, adapted R lenses and adapted S lenses, just by staying with Leica, you can cover pretty much everything - except perhaps professional sports (even though someone does it, and does it pretty well: see https://www.instagram.com/calloalbanese). If you add adapted Canon and Nikon lenses, you get a system that neither Canon, Nikon or Sony can match as far as flexibility goes.

 

...

For all of those who post here about SL lenses being too large and heavy and not being released quickly enough, I have to think you likely don’t own the existing native lenses and you likely shoot M lenses. If that’s the case, you’re getting exactly what you started with and Leica never made any claims about the SL being a small EVF replacement for the M. The new CL and the smaller TL lenses may be a better fit.

 

Spot on. And, if you see here: https://vieribottazzini.com/2017/11/leica-24-90mm-f2-8-4-vario-elmarit-sl-asph-user-review.html I made a comparison of weight and size between SL + 24-90mm and equivalent FF setups from everyone else. Some are heavier, all are bigger except for Sony, and NONE goes up to 90mm, so theoretically to match size and weight with the SL + 24-90mm and anyone else + 24-70mm you should add a second lens. Leica users are used to M systems, and they use that as their reference point.

 

You mentioned price: well, shooting Leica and complaining about price is like driving a Ferrari and complaining that is more expensive than a Fiat If one does, one probably is in the wrong brand's forum...

 

Best regards,

 

Vieri

[wlaidlaw]

I have given up waiting for my pre-ordered 16-35 SL, sold my 90-280 and ordered a CL with the two TL zooms. I will keep the SL and 24-90, as it is a brilliant performer with that lens and also with the 50/.95 Noctilux but for travel use, I now find the SL too heavy. I think I am correct in saying that the CL plus both zooms, weighs less than the SL and 24-90. If the 16-35 had arrived when originally scheduled, I would probably have continued with the SL. I don't see myself buying any additional lenses for the SL or the SL update when, if ever, that arrives. I get the vibe with the SL, that this is now a bit of a side-show for Leica, with them concentrating on the APS-C and M ranges. Panaleicas seem to have died, with I suspect, only old stock now being sold.  

 

Wilson

[Guest VVJ]

Exactly. When I hear people complaining about Leica being slow with the release of SL native lenses (which they are, nobody is saying otherwise) I always ask: "well, what is it that you CAN'T do with the SL system as it is now?". I generally get a deafening silence, or renewed complains about Leica being slow...

 

Vieri,

 

It is all psychology...

 

When people invest in a system they want to get a warm and fuzzy feeling that that is a good long term investment.

 

And right now an increasing number of people doesn't get that feeling about the SL system.  And a "deafening silence" from Leica , if you want to use that term, is part of the reason for that...

 

Leica should communicate with its customers and put out a new roadmap that a/o also includes revised dates for the lenses that were initially scheduled for 2018...

 

Best, Joris.

[helged]

Exactly. When I hear people complaining about Leica being slow with the release of SL native lenses (which they are, nobody is saying otherwise) I always ask: "well, what is it that you CAN'T do with the SL system as it is now?". I generally get a deafening silence, or renewed complains about Leica being slow...

 

In truth, between the 3 native SL lenses, adapted M lenses, adapted R lenses and adapted S lenses, just by staying with Leica, you can cover pretty much everything - except perhaps professional sports (even though someone does it, and does it pretty well: see https://www.instagram.com/calloalbanese). If you add adapted Canon and Nikon lenses, you get a system that neither Canon, Nikon or Sony can match as far as flexibility goes.

 

 

Spot on. And, if you see here: https://vieribottazzini.com/2017/11/leica-24-90mm-f2-8-4-vario-elmarit-sl-asph-user-review.html I made a comparison of weight and size between SL + 24-90mm and equivalent FF setups from everyone else. Some are heavier, all are bigger except for Sony, and NONE goes up to 90mm, so theoretically to match size and weight with the SL + 24-90mm and anyone else + 24-70mm you should add a second lens. Leica users are used to M systems, and they use that as their reference point.

 

You mentioned price: well, shooting Leica and complaining about price is like driving a Ferrari and complaining that is more expensive than a Fiat If one does, one probably is in the wrong brand's forum...

 

Best regards,

 

Vieri

+1.

 

I would, in additon, add that the SL system lacks long (400+ mm) lenses with AF and stabilisation.

 

The implication for me is that I have gone to Nikon to get the long reach, for wild life photography. But if Leica reenters this niche - which I doubt, but could we hope for the APO Telyt Modular R system or something similar in L-mount? - I would clearly consider to depart from Nikon (ignoring the price tag for such a system...).

 

Except for the long reach with af and stabilisation, the SL does nearly everything I can think of. And it is a system where I can easily and quickly control the process. As it should be.

 

Addendum: Please remove the default noise reduction for long exposures, Leica...!

[dkCambridgeshire]

Exactly. When I hear people complaining about Leica being slow with the release of SL native lenses (which they are, nobody is saying otherwise) I always ask: "well, what is it that you CAN'T do with the SL system as it is now?". I generally get a deafening silence, or renewed complains about Leica being slow...

...

Best regards,

 

Vieri

 

For starters, cannot take photos of fast moving birds at a distance … or action sports at a distance …  because Leica do not offer an SL lens longer than 280mm or an SL lens extender. OK this has been argued about a number of times on the forum but it's likely the non-bird photographers and the non-sports photographers who cannot see the point of e.g. an AF SL 400mm prime lens. I raised the question with Leica Mayfair recently and it was met with a negative response as if such a lens would not sell … and a former Leica Milton Keynes employee chipped in and agreed it would not sell because, he said, " … the Leica APO Telyt R Modular 280-800mm did not sell …we could not find buyers … the lenses were laying around unsold …"    What they failed to take into account was that at that time (early 2000s) professional wildlife and sports photographers were mostly using AF telephoto primes and Leica was only offering the manual focus R system. Nowadays it's different ball game with Leica at long last (since 2015, at least 10 years too late) offering the SL AF system. There are likely many SL users who would welcome e.g. an SL 400mm lens plus extender … plus all the camera / lens hire agencies who offer the SL system. And surely a 400mm SL prime would be easier to design and manufacture than e.g. a fast SL 200-400mm zoom?  Mention has been made elsewhere on the forum of Leica's willingness to offer e.g. 'special editions' and redesigned retro lenses all of which require Leica resources in the broadest sense … resources which maybe could be diverted into current new, modern, state of the art usable AF lenses … rather than into low volume production collectibles.  

 

Leica Camera AG has in the past 'farmed out' lens production to e.g. Kyocera and Sigma, and it's likely that TL/CL lenses are produced in Japan. Given Leica's willingness when necessary to contact out lens production they could maybe find a third party manufacturer for SL lenses … lenses too be bought by willing Leica customers who are not prejudiced regarding exactly where their Leica lenses are assembled.  

 

dunk 

Edited November 30, 2017 by dkCambridgeshire

[Vieri]

Vieri,

 

It is all psychology...

 

When people invest in a system they want to get a warm and fuzzy feeling that that is a good long term investment.

 

And right now an increasing number of people doesn't get that feeling about the SL system.  And a "deafening silence" from Leica , if you want to use that term, is part of the reason for that...

 

Leica should communicate with its customers and put out a new roadmap that a/o also includes revised dates for the lenses that were initially scheduled for 2018...

 

Best, Joris.

 

Joris,

 

true, all psychology. Which doesn't make it sensible, anyway A camera system is not an investment, is a tool to take photographs; as such, the SL system as it is now, with the exceptions I mentioned, works. Why should Leica publish a revised schedule for 2018, since we are still in 2017? I am pretty sure they will deliver the announced SL lenses in 2018.

 

Best regards,

 

Vieri

[Vieri]

For starters, cannot take photos of fast moving birds at a distance … or action sports at a distance …  because Leica do not offer an SL lens longer than 280mm or an SL lens extender. OK this has been argued about a number of times on the forum but it's likely the non-bird photographers and the non-sports photographers who cannot see the point of e.g. an AF SL 400mm prime lens. I raised the question with Leica Mayfair recently and it was met with a negative response as if such a lens would not sell … and a former Leica Milton Keynes employee chipped in and agreed it would not sell because, he said, " … the Leica APO Telyt R Modular 280-800mm did not sell …we could not find buyers … the lenses were laying around unsold …"    What they failed to take into account was that at that time (early 2000s) professional wildlife and sports photographers were mostly using AF telephoto primes and Leica was only offering the manual focus R system. Nowadays it's different ball game with Leica at long last (since 2015, at least 10 years too late) offering the SL AF system. There are likely many SL users who would welcome e.g. an SL 400mm lens plus extender … plus all the camera / lens hire agencies who offer the SL system. And surely a 400mm SL prime would be easier to design and manufacture than e.g. a fast SL 200-400mm zoom?  Mention has been made elsewhere on the forum of Leica's willingness to offer e.g. 'special editions' and redesigned retro lenses all of which require Leica resources in the broadest sense … resources which maybe could be diverted into current new, modern, state of the art usable AF lenses … rather than into low volume production collectibles.  

 

dunk 

 

Dunk,

 

I mentioned sport as one of the thing the SL is not great at, with some exceptions. Nature / birds, while not ideal can be done with adapted lenses; fast moving birds at a distance, much less ideal, but it was done with MF lenses back in the day, so I guess it can be done with adapted lenses today.

 

 

I am not sure there will ever be longer lenses for the SL, but a converter might arrive at some point; and, as your Leica Mayfair contact said, it is a matter of numbers. I am pretty sure that if the system becomes more popular and the request will come in in significant numbers, Leica will take care of these needs too when the system is more mature.

 

What people tends to forget is this: Leica is in the business of selling cameras and lenses. Therefore, it is in their interest to make camera and lenses and sell them. However, they are a small company with limited resources, and they plan their releases according to what they think is best - whether we agree with that or not. I have the feeling that they thought that the SL system, with the two zooms together with all the flexibility allowed by adapted lenses, could be good enough for most users and therefore they took a little longer to release the new lenses; perhaps they misunderstood their customer's psychology, but this doesn't mean that the SL is going anywhere, IMHO.

 

Best regards,

 

Vieri

[dkCambridgeshire]

Dunk,

 

I mentioned sport as one of the thing the SL is not great at, with some exceptions. Nature / birds, while not ideal can be done with adapted lenses; fast moving birds at a distance, much less ideal, but it was done with MF lenses back in the day, so I guess it can be done with adapted lenses today …  

 

 

Best regards,

 

Vieri

 

 

That's poppycock … you need fast AF lenses for consistent results … the available adapters are hopeless.

 

dunk 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Vieri]

That's poppycock … you need fast AF lenses for consistent results … the available adapters are hopeless.

 

dunk 

 

Well, whatever Dunk. People back in the day where probably better than people today at using their MF long lenses, but I appreciate it that AF made people's MF focusing skills sloppy. Let's say, no sports and no fast moving birds. Other than that, what is it that the SL as it is today, with native and adapted lenses, cannot do?

 

Best,

 

Vieri