Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[Chaemono]

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Summicron 35 on the M10 and XCD 45/3.5 on the X1D. ISO 200, f/16, 1/5 for the X1D, 1/4 for the M10. LR default sharpening and WB adjusted to try to match. Full resolution here:

https://www.smugmug....llery/n-9FSKSS/

 

M10

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X1D

Edited June 4, 2017 by Chaemono

[Chaemono]

Summicron 35 on the M10 and XCD 45/3.5 on the X1D. ISO 200 for both, f/3.5 and 1/100 on the X1D, f/2.8 and 1/90 on the M10. LR default sharpening, exposure and WB adjusted to try to match. Full resolution here:

https://www.smugmug....llery/n-9FSKSS/

 

M10

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X1D

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[Chaemono]

These two were handheld. ISO 200, slightly different shutter speed, f/2.8 on the M10, f/3.5 on the X1D. Default LR sharpening and WB adjusted to try to match. Full resolution here:

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/

 

M10

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X1D

[Chaemono]

One just with the XCD 90/3.2 on the X1D at f/3.2. This lens is contrasty enough wide open. The XCD 45/3.5 is a bit soft wide open and in general doesn't have as much lens contrast as the XCD 90/3.2. The M10 picture turned out too blurry. Full resolution here:

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/

 

X1D

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Edited June 4, 2017 by Chaemono

[Chaemono]

And two more with the Summicron 75 at f/2.6 and the XCD 90/3.2 at f/3.2. These are processed with some adjustments in LR, including WB to try to match. But no contrast added. Full resolution with EXIF data here:

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/

 

M10

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X1D

 

 

 

[Chaemono]

Ten more from today with the Summicron 75 on the M10 and the XCD 90 on the X1D. They were shot at f/4 for the Leica and at f/5 for the X1D with mostly the same shutter speed and at ISO 100 or ISO 200. LR default sharpening applied to all.

 

On these two here, the M10 one only touched slightly (Tint from +8 to +5, Exposure -0.10, Highlights -30), for the X1D only Temperature reduced a bit.

 

Full resolution with EXIF data here: 

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/

 

M10

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X1D

Edited June 5, 2017 by Chaemono

[Chaemono]

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For the M10 only Temperature increased a bit, for the X1D Exposure +0.15, and WB adjusted to match the Leica.

 

Full resolution here:

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/

 

M10

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X1D

[Chaemono]

Just for color and sharpness. For the M10 Exposure +0.30, for the X1D Exposure +0.75, nothing else.

 

Full resolution here:

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/

 

M10

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X1D

[Chaemono]

Just for color and overall look. WB as shot for both. Auto adjust for both but no contrast added. Exposure tweaked to match.

 

Full resolution here:

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/

 

M10

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X1D

[Chaemono]

For the M10 Exposure +0.30, Tint from +7 to +5 to try to match the X1D which wasn’t touched at all. Gosh, I love the M10.

 

Full resolution here:

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS

 

M10

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X1D

[ramarren]

Chaemono, I have no idea what you're trying to show here. The photos from the two cameras seem to be almost identical to my eye. I wouldn't choose one over the other on the basis of any of these photos ... and btw, this thread is SL vs the X1D, not M10 vs the X1D. ???

[Chaemono]

I was thinking if Leica manages to improve on the M10 sensor, then, if we are all healthy and well next year, one of the biggest things to look forward to in 2018 will be the SL2. Also, wanted to get the discussion a bit away from 'I think this is a great camera because when I held and played with it in the store the grip gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling'.

[IkarusJohn]

I'm grateful to Chaemono for taking the time to post these comparisons - I'm sure there are many here who would find fine differences, or discount the comparison for technical reasons.  But, for someone who can screw up a perfectly good picture in processing, this comparison reinforces my underlying belief that the SL, Monochrom and M-A combination I currently have is all I need.

 

I can't see a beneficial difference in these photos, or any advantage in switching to or adding the X1D.

 

Thank you!

[ramarren]

I'm grateful to Chaemono for taking the time to post these comparisons - I'm sure there are many here who would find fine differences, or discount the comparison for technical reasons.  But, for someone who can screw up a perfectly good picture in processing, this comparison reinforces my underlying belief that the SL, Monochrom and M-A combination I currently have is all I need.

 

I can't see a beneficial difference in these photos, or any advantage in switching to or adding the X1D.

 

Thank you!

 

 

Well John, just because Chaemono's photos don't show much of a difference doesn't mean there isn't one. None of the photos he showed are really pushing either the M10 or X1D capabilities (or the SL's for that matter). 

 

For my use, the X1D would be a specialist camera. I'd buy it with two lenses, the 22mm and the 100mm macro, and use it for things that are more difficult to achieve with the smaller format and lower pixel resolution of the Leicas. But only time will tell, when the two lenses in question, become available as to whether I value that speciality capability enough to spend the money to get it. 

 

I'm really quite happy with my M-D and SL, and the lenses I have for them. It's only if I want to push an edge into another dimension of my photography that the X1D makes sense for me.

[Jeff S]

With high quality gear, which all systems mentioned here are, IQ is going to be correspondingly high. For me, the only comparisons that matter result from my own shooting, workflow and making prints. Even then, purchase decisions typically involve far more than IQ.... lens line, ergonomics, viewing system, operating interface, and much more.

 

Online pics from someone else? Entertaining.

 

Jeff

Edited June 6, 2017 by Jeff S

[Chaemono]

This whole debate has been very entertaining like the comments here.

 

 

But the captures from an X1D OOC are stunning. I keep comparing SL and X1D shots of equivalent subjects, same aperture and ISO and the X1D files are very real and natural looking and don't look like photographs. A picture of hand looked like my hand was inside the camera. the SL looked like a nice pic of hand. 

 

...

 

Sorry for enraging Leica lovers, of which I AM one. But..

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Chaemono

[Joshua Lowe]

Re: the yellow train car.  Which yellow is more representative of reality? 

[Chaemono]

The answer is neither. In the case of the M10, the cooler look of the Adobe Profile in combination with the way the camera emphasizes the orange leads to a bit of an ugly yellow in this case. One would actually like to like the X1D image more but this is also way off. The good news is, I was able to fix it quickly for the M10. In the gallery that the links I posted lead to there is now a version of it that on my monitor comes close to the actual yellow of the train car. The WB for the M10 is correct so I didn't touch this. All I did was move the yellow hue slider just a bit to the right to reduce the orange in the yellow and increased saturation and vibrance. One could make it even punchier but I like it this way. I'm pretty sure that's the yellow of the train car as I've walked by there many times.

It would have been nice to have the correct yellow OOC but if not, then I always prefer a less saturated, more subdued look as a starting point and the Adobe Profile gives me this for the M10. Having said that, I don't think color is an issue with the X1D.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Chaemono

[ski542002]

Great efforts in providing these comparison's.  I'm a fanboy of both systems; that said the only noticeable difference between the two comparisons... the M10 images seem just a tad sharper, and the bokeh from the M10 images, to me is more pleasing.  IF an individual only needs a larger image file, than the X1D will be your ticket. BUT, is it worth that kind of investment?

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[Peter H]

I'm grateful to Chaemono for taking the time to post these comparisons - I'm sure there are many here who would find fine differences, or discount the comparison for technical reasons.  But, for someone who can screw up a perfectly good picture in processing, this comparison reinforces my underlying belief that the SL, Monochrom and M-A combination I currently have is all I need.

 

I can't see a beneficial difference in these photos, or any advantage in switching to or adding the X1D.

 

Thank you!

 

 

I don't know anything about Chaemono's methods or techniques but I'm astonished at how little difference he or she is getting from the two cameras, and the idea that a 24mp 24x36 sensor should be indistinguishable from a 50 mp 33x44 sensor I think requires very different testing from anything we can carry out from the small compressed images we can look at here. I have to say, with no wish to be rude, that since the M10 is capable of better-looking images than we can see here, no one should be surprised that the X1D is also.

 

In my opinion, which I wish I could substantiate with some prints for you to see, the X1D is capable of producing superior files, but it is not such a convenient camera to use, so the comparison doesn't end with file quality. In fact, such a comparison ends up being meaningless in most respects if you find one camera is better than the other for the type of photography you do.

 

Thanks to Chaemono for all the effort and patience, but I think we're seeing only a tiny part of a much bigger picture.