Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[frame-it]

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https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/03/17/leica-m-mount-lenses-on-the-x1d/

[lx1713]

https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/03/17/leica-m-mount-lenses-on-the-x1d/

 

A very interesting read. Can't say I'm surprised at the list of lenses. The M also had the constrains of needing a rangefinder view to remain reasonably usable.

[Likaleica]

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Hi, does anyone know if you can use say a leica 50mm lens on X1D without any vignette and whether the lens image will cover all of the sensor?

 

Thanks

 

Wide open, no post-processing

Edited May 22, 2018 by Likaleica

[sillbeers15]

Ming has an extensive writeout on camera format, sensor size, resolution of sensor, DOF between different format of choices:

 

https://blog.mingthein.com/2018/05/22/format-equivalence-engineering-and-practical-envelope/#more-17072

[dancook]

I've been thinking a lot about the X1D this week.

 

Not that I've got the cash in hand to go buy it tomorrow, but I wonder how long I should wait before diving in.

 

Wanted to make the most out of the rendering IQ, but there there are limited lenses to take advantage of it add to this I've heard the "45mm is not as awesome as the 90mm" but I don't have much more info than that. It makes me wonder whether there are better lens choices coming.

 

If I wanted to keep lens choices (1 or 2) to a minimum for portraits/street/travel - that I should be interested to see how the 65mm + 120/135mm are?

Edited May 22, 2018 by dancook

[scott kirkpatrick]

I haven't read all that the X1D + Leica M crowd is doing, but it does seem that the 50 Summilux-asph is the one with the widest field, thus apparently no vignetting. But the 1/3 second sweep time of the X1D's electronic shutter discourages me from this experiment.  (Also the lack of a neighborhood camera store with stock to handle.)

[frame-it]

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probably better to wait, as MT mentions a "new imaging pipeline" in the works for the new model possibly coming soon...

 

 

and even if you don't want 100MP in the same sensor size [all XCD lenses should work fine], the 50MP X1D prices would probably go down

 

 

https://www.flickr.com/groups/3021209@N23/pool/

 

 

 

I've been thinking a lot about the X1D this week.

 

Not that I've got the cash in hand to go buy it tomorrow, but I wonder how long I should wait before diving in.

 

Wanted to make the most out of the rendering IQ, but there there are limited lenses to take advantage of it add to this I've heard the "45mm is not as awesome as the 90mm" but I don't have much more info than that. It makes me wonder whether there are better lens choices coming.

 

If I wanted to keep lens choices (1 or 2) to a minimum for portraits/street/travel - that I should be interested to see how the 65mm + 120/135mm are?

[ropo54]

I've been thinking a lot about the X1D this week.

 

Not that I've got the cash in hand to go buy it tomorrow, but I wonder how long I should wait before diving in.

 

Wanted to make the most out of the rendering IQ, but there there are limited lenses to take advantage of it add to this I've heard the "45mm is not as awesome as the 90mm" but I don't have much more info than that. It makes me wonder whether there are better lens choices coming.

 

If I wanted to keep lens choices (1 or 2) to a minimum for portraits/street/travel - that I should be interested to see how the 65mm + 120/135mm are?

 

I had the X1D for a few weeks before deciding to sell. The images were superb with the 45mm and 90mm lenses, though they are not fast lenses. I also tried the R80 1.4 and it worked very nicely with very shallow depth of field, but it requires the electronic shutter. I am told by another FM user that the R 50 worked well with no vignetting; my noctilux 0.95 did not.  The ergonomics are superb and it is quite portable, and I'd say more comfortable to tote around than the SL 601. 

 

I decided to sell only because the slow shutter was a bit too slow for my preferences. I am a hobbyist and want to be able to snap more quickly most of the time. If you are intending on portrait work and deliberate shooting you should be quite happy. Just don't expect to be ready to fire away after your snap. There is a definite delay time, as others have pointed out.

 

I did try a SL 007 afterwards, and it was superb. The slow shutter speed is not there.  I opted to purchase a mint condition pre-owned S 006 to dip my toes into medium format, as prices on the 006 are really superb,  but I suspect I will want to upgrade to the S 007 once  a nice one becomes available.  FWIW, I also understand that Hasselblad HC lenses may be used on the S line with the appropriate adapter, and they are much more reasonably priced.  

 

At the end of the day, once Hb figures out to speed up the shutter in the next version, I think it will be a real winner.  

Edited May 22, 2018 by ropo54

[Chaemono]

...

At the end of the day, once Hb figures out to speed up the shutter in the next version, I think it will be a real winner.

Exactly. And that’s another reason why Leica will have to put an MF sensor in the L-mount.

 

I tried the X1D for a weekend and shot the M10 with two Summicrons in parallel. The Summicrons were stopped down to ‘match’ the MF aperture wide open of the two XCD lenses, the 45 mm and 90 mm. I found the X1D too slow, the grip got really hot at times, and the lenses were in many situations no match for the Summicrons stopped down. Renting the X1D with the two lenses for two and a half days cost about €600. But the GAS went away. Actually, it increased for another M lens. I don’t print large and AF is not important to me. So I got the 75 Noctilux instead. It should work nicely on an MF L-mount body.

[frame-it]

not printing large actually cures a LOT of G.A.S

 

 

 

Exactly. And that’s another reason why Leica will have to put an MF sensor in the L-mount.

I tried the X1D for a weekend and shot the M10 with two Summicrons in parallel. The Summicrons were stopped down to ‘match’ the MF aperture wide open of the two XCD lenses, the 45 mm and 90 mm. I found the X1D too slow, the grip got really hot at times, and the lenses were in many situations no match for the Summicrons stopped down. Renting the X1D with the two lenses for two and a half days cost about €600. But the GAS went away. Actually, it increased for another M lens. I don’t print large and AF is not important to me. So I got the 75 Noctilux instead. It should work nicely on an MF L-mount body.

[dancook]

Does medium format allow for a more flattering perspective on faces whilst keeping more environment?

[frame-it]

https://www.flickr.com/groups/mfp/pool/

 

 

https://www.flickr.com/search/?group_id=1258104%40N24&view_all=1&text=portrait

 

 

 

Does medium format allow for a more flattering perspective on faces whilst keeping more environment?

Edited May 22, 2018 by frame-it

[dancook]

https://www.flickr.com/groups/mfp/pool/

 

 

https://www.flickr.com/search/?group_id=1258104%40N24&view_all=1&text=portrait

 

What I meant was, when I'm trying to put my finger on how medium format looks different to full frame - whether that was actually 'a thing' or I was just imagining it but thanks for feeding the monster

[dancook]

It makes sense though doesn't it

 

65mm on a MF

50mm on a FF (equiv?)

 

65mm will have more flattering perspective

the MF sensor will capture wider scene.

 

So you get a different look, it's a look I like

 

maybe i've missed something

Edited May 22, 2018 by dancook

[lx1713]

 but I wonder how long I should wait before diving in.

 

 

 

Maybe until photokina

[Jeff S]

It makes sense though doesn't it

 

65mm on a MF

50mm on a FF (equiv?)

 

65mm will have more flattering perspective

the MF sensor will capture wider scene.

 

So you get a different look, it's a look I like

 

maybe i've missed something

Perspective is influenced by camera position, not focal length. Field of view, and depth of field, are other topics.

 

I appreciate larger formats... film or digital... in large part due to the potential for better, more subtle, tonal (and color) gradations. As usual, though, the user is more important than the gear.

 

Jeff

[ropo54]

What I meant was, when I'm trying to put my finger on how medium format looks different to full frame - whether that was actually 'a thing' or I was just imagining it but thanks for feeding the monster

 

Dan: The differences are real. You are not imagining it.

 

I take exception to those who maintain that one needs to print large to see a difference. There is more tonality, pop, depth (not sure if those are the correct adjectives in photography parlance), whatever you want to call it, to the medium format images.  

 

As for feeding the monster . . . scylla and charybdis are singing you into the rocks. No reason to resist.

[dancook]

Perspective is influenced by camera position, not focal length. Field of view, and depth of field, are other topics.

 

I appreciate larger formats... film or digital... in large part due to the potential for better, more subtle, tonal (and color) gradations. As usual, though, the user is more important than the gear.

 

Jeff

 

thanks! my mind is clouded by anti histamines and the heat..

[lx1713]

During film days, as I understood then, the larger format lenses didn't need to deliver resolution and micro contrast the way 35mm format needed to. The lenses could solve other optical issues in a larger volume of glass. I wasn't too much of thinker about such things so I just bought a 210 macro sironar to do the job. Nice glass but I didn't bother to compare formats and lenses after that purchase because I was pretty happy with it. I think there will be a difference definitely and from the posts so far, you will be happy with the image quality 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Chaemono]

Dan: The differences are real. You are not imagining it.

 

I take exception to those who maintain that one needs to print large to see a difference. There is more tonality, pop, depth (not sure if those are the correct adjectives in photography parlance), whatever you want to call it, to the medium format images.

 

As for feeding the monster . . . scylla and charybdis are singing you into the rocks. No reason to resist.

Yes, definitely. I was specifically referring to using the XCD lenders wide open where most lenses won’t be at their best vs. stopping down the Summicrons a bit to the optimal point of contrast but before diffraction sets in ()to ‘match’ the MF aperture wide open. Let’s not forget that the 45 and 90 XCD lenses are a bit slow. On a monitor better tonal gradation of the X1D I can see in some shots but the Summicrons just rock stopped down a bit. See here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/

 

@Dan - for headshots MF will show, as somebody else has put it, “swaths of make-up on facial hair.” Try it.