Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[Jeff S]

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Dear Jeff S:

 

I love how every time you disagree with my opinion, and the evidence I present to support it, you do your best to undermine my credibility rather than present any salient facts that indicate otherwise. I'll no longer read your posts or respond to you. You're on ignore now.

 

As I said, my personal handling of the camera in June 2016 didn't impress me one way or the other regards its alleged "horrible" shutter sound, or "difficulty in determining when the exposure had been made" ... even with the demo models available at that time, it sounded fine and I had no problem judging the precise time of exposure. And reading the discussions of those who have final, delivered cameras in their hands, there is virtually no discussion of any problems with regard to the sound or the shutter release timing except in discussions that date back to before their cameras were delivered in response to the Kevin Raber article. I consider that far more credible than what some net reviewer and a crappy recording of the camera in a noisy exhibit hall presents as opinion.

 

I have an appointment with the Hasselblad area representative to see the shipping X1D on March 17. But I'll not offer you any further of my opinions. It's not worth my time reading or responding to you, and I could care less what you have to say on any subject at this point.

Finally. I asked to be on your list weeks ago. I won't miss the attacks.

 

And you don't even see the irony of your irritation. Pot...kettle...black.

 

Jeff

[Belle123]

Please don't fight over asking me questions. I truly like the X1d but I am not going to defend it as "the best" choice between 35mm and medium format. Only each individual can decide. For me, right now, is my only choice I would consider in medium format digital, and I have other systems I keep in 35mm I won't part with. Going medium format, buying the way over expensive S system or other Hasselblad H digital is not in my justifiable budget unless was willing to let go of all other cameras and lenses. The X1d was reachable, however, and I went for it. I think most who have shot medium format before can understand why it is attractive, and those that haven't just need to experience it. It doesn't have to be for every occasion unless is your only camera. This whole topic is silly, really. Who really is deciding between a SL and a X1D??? Kinda like comparing a race car with a RV.

[Peter H]

I went to my dealer today to pick up my M10 and I noticed that they had a Fuji GFX 50S on the display shelf so I had a very quick play with it. I was in a hurry being on my way to an appointment so it was literally just a few minutes, and I didn't take any photos, I just wanted to know how it feels, which is important to me.

 

It feels big but not ungainly in any way. Much larger in the hand than the X1D, but noticeably lighter. It feels well made though, the controls are positive, and very conveniently placed. The viewfinder is large and bright but not especially different from the X1D's despite its higher resolution. Not for the way I use an EVF anyway. It is not as sharp or precise as the SL's; you are far more aware that it is an EVF.

 

There we are. Not much of a review by any standards, but I though I'd share my very experience of the camera, and it was a nice experience for a very tentative surprise first date (I'm far too old for this type of metaphor) and I shall be back very soon for more. 

 

In summary, in terms of immediate and no doubt superficial first impressions, it is more comfortable for me to handle than an SL, but not as natural-feeling as an X1D. But there's much more to a camera than that of course.

[caissa]

The Pentax K1 offers a "Super Resolution" mode. It has a 36 MP sensor with Bayer matrix. The "super resolution" pixel shift mode combines 4 exposures to produce an image that contains true color for each single pixel. All 4 exposures are saved into a single DNG file.

Some commenters regard this as the most potent advance in image quality in years. Some even think this could make midrange obsolete ("I think it kills medium format".)

And some expect Sony and Nikon to add this feature to their next generation of cameras. (Maybe also Leica in the long run.)

 

It is also implemented in the APS-C Pentax K3 II and images look outstanding.

 

What are the thoughts here on this forum ?

[jrp]

It only works if everything is still (so forget water or smoke or wind on leaves).  Olympus offer the same thing, as do Hasselblad,

 

So useful / welcome, but not game changing.

[caissa]

Olympus has a patent, and Pentax as well. So obviously it cannot be the "same thing". Two patents for the same are impossible.

The Pentax results are highly praised - the Olympus not too much ?!

Hasselblad offers the multishot/multisampling model H5D-200c (4 or 6 shots respectively) at a price point most here cannot afford. The Pentax K1 is less than 2k, the K3 even much lower.

Important is that the DNG of the K1 contains all 4 exposures, so even later (improved) software can access the original data.

Olympus and Hasselblad use 1/2 pixel shift - with resulting problems, while the Pentax uses full pixel shifts.

Another important difference, the K1 is fast and "small". With many zoom lenses. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by caissa

[ramarren]

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Olympus has a patent, and Pentax as well. So obviously it cannot be the "same thing". Two patents for the same are impossible.

The Pentax results are highly praised - the Olympus not too much ?!

Hasselblad offers the multishot/multisampling model H5D-200c (4 or 6 shots respectively) at a price point most here cannot afford. The Pentax K1 is less than 2k, the K3 even much lower.

Important is that the DNG of the K1 contains all 4 exposures, so even later (improved) software can access the original data.

Olympus and Hasselblad use 1/2 pixel shift - with resulting problems, while the Pentax uses full pixel shifts.

Another important difference, the K1 is fast and "small". With many zoom lenses.

 

Actually, there are often competing patents that implement the same functionality. The differences between them are the implementation, not the functionality. I'm not familiar with the Hasselblad implementation or the Pentax implementation, but the Olympus implementation works extremely well for what it's designed to do; I've used it myself.

 

But, with all due respect, what does the Pentax or Olympus 'pixel shift' feature have to do with the topic of this thread, which is discussing the selection of two similarly sized and priced, but dissimilarly featured, cameras—one from Leica, the other from Hasselblad? The notion that pixel shift will replace medium format digital is absurd, same for replacing higher resolution sensors in FF35 cameras too. Pixel shift technology is an implementation to improve resolution, dynamic range, color capture, or all three, for specific circumstances. It can't be used for many of the circumstances that the SL or X1D are intended to be used for. Or, for that matter, for the Pentax K and Olympus OM-D cameras either.

Edited March 13, 2017 by ramarren

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I have thw Olympus and I have played with a few Pentax shifted files. Impressive. Yes. Same as a larger sensor. No. Neither os the Canon 5DSR with 50MP.. It isn't all about resolution.

 

Gordon

[40mm f/2]

I was today in a camera store (to get a non functioning Olympus lens exchanged) and I discovered that they have both the SL and X1D on display. I only looked at the X1D after seeing the native lenses of the SL. Great camera with some idiosyncratic issues like how long it takes after you pressed the release to see the EVF be back in action. Still I am interested if their macro 120mm is on the affordable range! I wished that the SL would not be the exact opposite of the M range in dimensions.

Edited March 14, 2017 by 40mm f/2

[Guest]

I went to my dealer today to pick up my M10 and I noticed that they had a Fuji GFX 50S on the display shelf so I had a very quick play with it. I was in a hurry being on my way to an appointment so it was literally just a few minutes, and I didn't take any photos, I just wanted to know how it feels, which is important to me.

 

It feels big but not ungainly in any way. Much larger in the hand than the X1D, but noticeably lighter. It feels well made though, the controls are positive, and very conveniently placed. The viewfinder is large and bright but not especially different from the X1D's despite its higher resolution. Not for the way I use an EVF anyway. It is not as sharp or precise as the SL's; you are far more aware that it is an EVF.

 

There we are. Not much of a review by any standards, but I though I'd share my very experience of the camera, and it was a nice experience for a very tentative surprise first date (I'm far too old for this type of metaphor) and I shall be back very soon for more. 

 

In summary, in terms of immediate and no doubt superficial first impressions, it is more comfortable for me to handle than an SL, but not as natural-feeling as an X1D. But there's much more to a camera than that of course.

 

Peter, I also handled the Fuji this week, my instant impression was of quality of controls (a lot of them, after 2 weeks M10 ownership!), fast autofocus. However my over-riding impression was ruined by a feeling that I had in my hands such a cramped camera and very little space to grip the big, but light thing. I knew then I have the right camera for me the M10.

[Jeff S]

Peter, I also handled the Fuji this week, my instant impression was of quality of controls (a lot of them, after 2 weeks M10 ownership!), fast autofocus. However my over-riding impression was ruined by a feeling that I had in my hands such a cramped camera and very little space to grip the big, but light thing. I knew then I have the right camera for me the M10.

But compare it to the S system (including cost). The M is a different animal.

 

Enjoy your M.

 

Jeff

[Keith (M)]

Haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this video link has been previously posted:-  (and further apologies if this is breaching forum rules!)

Comparing Fujifilm's GFX 50S to Canon's EOS 5DS R

Edited March 14, 2017 by Keith (M)

[ramarren]

Haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this video link has been previously posted:-  (and further apologies if this is breaching forum rules!)

Comparing Fujifilm's GFX 50S to Canon's EOS 5DS R

Interesting, if completely off topic.

[caissa]

"A significant camera"

http://www.pcmag.com/review/352175/hasselblad-x1d-50c

[caissa]

The H lens adapter. Inexpensive, but no AF.

https://blog.mingthein.com/2017/03/01/new-hasselblad-x-lenses/

[Belle123]

The H lens adapter. Inexpensive, but no AF.

https://blog.mingthein.com/2017/03/01/new-hasselblad-x-lenses/

Not many lens adapters support auto focus. Your not putting an M lens or R lens on the SL and expecting autofocus are you?

[LD_50]

Not many lens adapters support auto focus. Your not putting an M lens or R lens on the SL and expecting autofocus are you?

M and R lenses don't offer AF on any camera so I miss the point here.

 

H lenses do offer autofocus and many would expect the official adapater from Hasselblad to support it. The linked article says "without AF (for now)" so one would expect this may change.

 

Many adapters do offer AF now. See the S system adapters from Leica as well as several adapters for Canon and Nikon mount lenses.

[Belle123]

M and R lenses don't offer AF on any camera so I miss the point here.

H lenses do offer autofocus and many would expect the official adapater from Hasselblad to support it. The linked article says "without AF (for now)" so one would expect this may change.

Many adapters do offer AF now. See the S system adapters from Leica as well as several adapters for Canon and Nikon mount lenses.

I stand corrected.

[sunil]

Right off the top, I will state I have been a dedicated Leicaphile and gear junkie for nigh on 35 years. I am embarrassed to think about the amount of money I've lost on Leica gear (selling to upgrade) but that's another story as I'll continue along this losing path. I desperately want the SL to succeed as it is another Leica that interests me after the M and S lines that I currently fool around with as a rank amateur. However, I just cannot fathom how the SL can possibly compete with the Hasselblad X1D or even the Fuji, at least with a new crop of customers who are not constrained by owning an inventory of Leica lenses. I handled the X1D recently and while the shutter lag is very annoying, it has the build quality of an SL, a name that is just as venerable, far lighter, higher resolution and easier to carry around as well. With the H lenses soon to be AF compatible (they say a firmware change is inevitable to accommodate this) I just cannot justify the SL given the cost of the system is pretty much equivalent. My reason to get an SL would be for the AF so the M lenses are out. In fact, I see no future for the SL given the competitive offerings. Its a tough world out there and Leica will need to speed up their rate of innovation methinks.

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[Jeff S]

Timing is often key. While the SL seems off to a good start (I remain interested), I think it would have gained a better following and reputation if it had launched with 3 smallish Summicron primes. Leica is still much about the lenses. And personally, I might have preferred a mini-S body shape.

 

But choices are good....and only Leica knows how many SL cameras/lenses it needs to sell to be a success.

 

Jeff

Edited March 16, 2017 by Jeff S