The new 28 Summicron vs the old 28 Summicron

[jonoslack]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

My Eglish is worst and worst seemingly, sorry for that... I just said or meant to say that i do not focus further than 20 meters with 28mm lenses generally because i don't see any significant difference in the backgrounds due to DoF vs focussing at infinity and i prefer retaining details in the foregrounds. But again YMMV.

 

Gotcha

Your english is good enough that I wouldn't have realised it wasn't native

. . . and I now understand what you're saying, and that's probably the reason why nobody has complained too much about the old 28 anyway.

What I didn't test was what the corners were like at infinity when you focus at 20 metres . . . . . Fortunately I no longer have the old 28 or the Sony A7ii so my inquisitiveness won't force me into more pointless action!

 

To be honest I don't really like these sort of tests, it's the first one I've done, and I won't be hurrying to do another one!

 

All the best

[lct]

Off to a bad start... Looks like the 28/2 v2 can flare a lot when the sun is outside the frame (10 o'clock AM here). I'll have to check with the M240 to be sure but i suspect the built-in hood may be the culprit. Got the same experience with the Summarit 50/2.5 already.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[helged]

lct: Any info why your dealer turned down two copies of the Cron? I certainly dont think my dealer(s) check the leses up front of the sale... Thumbs up for your dealer!

 

Next - anyone checking/knowing the corner sharpness and/or flatness for the new 28Cron and 28Elmarit at f2.8? (the answer may deped on the focus distanse, so include a word about thid as well. Plus the body used, M, SL, Sony,...).

[lct]

lct: Any info why your dealer turned down two copies of the Cron? [...]

 

My dealers are appointed to check the stuff they receive but i don't ask them the reasons why they accept or reject a lens or a body sorry.

[rscheffler]

Off to a bad start... Looks like the 28/2 v2 can flare a lot when the sun is outside the frame (10 o'clock AM here). I'll have to check with the M240 to be sure but i suspect the built-in hood may be the culprit. Got the same experience with the Summarit 50/2.5 already.

 

 

Back when I briefly had the new Cron, I did a number of direct, tripod based comparison tests against the old version, some of which were for flare characteristics. With respect to the sun causing this type of ghosting flare, I found the two pretty much identical. The old Cron already could be provoked into this kind of flare with the sun just out of the frame, so I wasn't surprised to see the new Cron do essentially the same thing, considering the optical formula looks nearly identical. The big difference between the two, in respect to flare that I saw, was that the new Cron seemed to handle veiling flare caused by strong backlighting much better, retaining better contrast. In other words, when there were ghost/flare spot patterns to be found in images, the two were essentially identical. When it was a matter of veiling flare caused by strong non-specular light, the new Cron was better.

 

lct - one thing I'm curious about your lens, what is the date on the sticker attached to the box and/or warranty card alongside the model and serial numbers? 

[lct]

[...] lct - one thing I'm curious about your lens, what is the date on the sticker attached to the box and/or warranty card alongside the model and serial numbers? 

 

 2016/06/10

[rscheffler]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

OK, thanks. The one I purchased at the end of May was 2015/09/11.... I assume this is roughly the manufacture date. I just wonder if the one I got was an example of an early production sample where the factory wasn't quite in the 'swing of thing's with the new product? It was the second copy I received after the first was DOA - serial numbers of the two were very close....

[jmahto]

Off to a bad start... Looks like the 28/2 v2 can flare a lot when the sun is outside the frame (10 o'clock AM here). I'll have to check with the M240 to be sure but i suspect the built-in hood may be the culprit. Got the same experience with the Summarit 50/2.5 already.

 

DSC02272_c1si_web.jpg

 

DSC02272_c1si_crop.jpg

I have never seen such flare with old 28mm cron and I have shot a lot into the sun (or sun just outside the frame). If sun is inside then sometimes I do get purple blob which only reveals if you underexposed a lot.

Edit: unless you are showing a very small crop of the flare.

 

In my 50lux ASPH, I have seen flare like in your pictures. Not in old 28cron.

Edited July 9, 2016 by jmahto

[rscheffler]

The second image appears to be a crop of the first. I have had that type of flare, as seen in the first image, with the old Cron, typically with the sun just out of the frame but light falling on the front element, and shot at or near wide open.

[jmahto]

The second image appears to be a crop of the first. I have had that type of flare, as seen in the first image, with the old Cron, typically with the sun just out of the frame but light falling on the front element, and shot at or near wide open.

Highlight mine... Whenever I shot into the sun I always had 5.6 or narrower aperture. Maybe that's why I haven't seen that kind of flare.

 

In the following shot (on M9, f/16, Sun just outside the frame above) without lens hood I got purple coloration in the middle of the pic (may be hard to notice in small size).

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[lct]

So far the behavior of both lenses re flare looks identical w/o hood

(boring handheld tests)

 

Halogen lamp 28/2v1, f/2:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Samples/i-vJSgm7X/0/O/DSC02406_2820v1.jpg

 

Halogen lamp 28/2v2, f/2:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Samples/i-95PDrfV/0/O/DSC02409_2820v2.jpg

 

Left of Halogen lamp 28/2v1, f/2:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Samples/i-nZkCcSh/0/O/DSC02419_2820v1.jpg

 

Left of Halogen lamp 28/2v2, f/2:

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Samples/i-bvk9J8K/0/O/DSC02420_2820v2.jpg

[MarkP]

Well I visited the new Leica Store in Sydney today and compared the current with my previous model 28 Summicron ASPH on my tripod mounted M240 at all apertures. I do like like the new compact hood design, similar to the other current-generation M lenses. I did not have the opportunity to test their respective flare resistance beyond bright store lights pointing into the camera.

 

Now I went in with an open mind thinking that the new 28 Summicron ASPH may be a better paired with my 50-APO Summicron. I was already trying to work out how to justify the upgrade on my way in and was seriously considering coming back this afternoon to buy the lens if I was suitably impressed.

 

I've spent a while pouring over these files at full size, and pixel peeping at 100%. I'm hard pressed to see a significant difference in rendering, colouring and resolution. Nor can I convince myself that there is enough difference in the corners, and of course neither lens can quite match the corner resolution of my 50 APO-Summicron which I also shot for comparison. It really just shows how good the previous 28 Summicron ASPH really is.

 

I won't be upgrading based on this test. Interestingly, this was exactly what Dan Tamarin advised me in correspondence at the time of the current 28 Summicron's release.

 

I also had an opportunity to look at, and shoot the 28 Summaron in the same comparison. Little gem of a lens and I really like the black brass hood. Does look a bit small and fiddly on an M240 with it's itty bitty aperture and focus rings but the weight is nice! It's overall similar but doesn't quite match the resolution of the other two lenses. There's not much on centre without really peeping but as expected not as good on the corners and darker). I really think it's a collectors lens. Nice but I'm not in a rush to get one...

Edited December 30, 2016 by MarkP

[jonoslack]

I won't be upgrading based on this test. Interestingly, this was exactly what Dan Tamarin advised me in correspondence at the time of the current 28 Summicron's release.

Hi Mark

The point is that the new summicron flattens the area in focus at or near infinity - not in the context of a store. The differences are pretty clear if you do that kind of a test (mind you, if you never shoot at, or near, infinity then it's not of much relevance).

 

So, if you're shooting Street, then it's probably not so relevant - if you're shooting landscape, then it probably is.

 

If you haven't seen this you might like to give it a look: http://www.slack.co.uk/leica-m-resolution.html

Edited December 30, 2016 by jonoslack

[MarkP]

Point taken thanks Jono. However it was trained  on a wall 10 metres or so across the store.

 

I shoot a lot of landscape with this focal length so will have to retest.

 

 

I thought I'd deflated that particular GAS attack.

Sigh ;-)

Edited December 30, 2016 by MarkP

[MarkP]

Jono,

 

I note in your report your comments about the differences being less impressive on the M240 c/w the SL or SonyA7II. I tested the lens on the M240 which probably also influenced my assessment. I don't use the other two cameras.

 

Regards,

Mark

Edited December 30, 2016 by MarkP

[jonoslack]

Jono,I note in your report your comments about the differences being less impressive on the M240 c/w the SL or SonyA7II. I tested the lens on the M240 which probably also influenced my assessment. I don't use the other two cameras.Regards,Mark

Hi there Mark

It sounds like you've saved yourself from GAS for a little longer!

Congratulations - and Happy New Year!

[MarkP]

Hi there Mark

It sounds like you've saved yourself from GAS for a little longer!

Congratulations - and Happy New Year!

 

 

And to you Jono!

 

GAS abatement may not be for long.  I do a lot of landscape work with the old 28 Summicron ASPH! So perhaps I should look at this the other way around.  

 

My main hesitation/concern with the upgrade, before having compared the lenses, was that if I upgraded I may lose that  je ne sais quoi rendering which makes my current lens so special to me. I certainly wouldn't want to keep both lenses as they aren't that different.  

 

However I don't see any appreciable difference between them regarding that unquantifiable factor.  They were virtually interchangeable for everything I tested them with (short of infinity focus as you suggested). 

 

So if I see a significant improvement primarily in flatness of plane of focus at infinity on the M240 then it becomes a worthwhile upgrade for which I lose none of that special rendering I have at the moment.  

 

Back to the Leica shop in the new year ;-)

Edited December 31, 2016 by MarkP

[uhoh7]

Oh yeah, the v1 cron would never flare:

 

L1006496 by unoh7, on Flickr

 

Of course the v1 will flare. Why do you think the hood is so big? For looks?

 

What I want to know is if the supposed focus shift is real on the v2. My v1 does not noticeably shift, and no review I ever found showed it did. No user claimed it did untill the recent rabid claims by some around here and Lloyd's hysterical blog.

 

I wonder if digilloyd had a bad lens or what?

 

@Ron, I see you did find a small shift on both. What's remarkable, is you shot that lens alot, for money, and never noticed it. So it must be REALLY small LOL. I put mine on the Kolari A7, went to full mag at 2 meters, focused at f/2 till I saw the pattern around my stove clock go into moire, which happens in the Sony evf at critical focus, then turned aperture ring all the way to F/8 checking each stop and trying to improve focus. I could not.

 

Anyway it seems there is unusual copy variation on the new one? I did hear a few reports bad copies of the v1. Not many. There was a recalled set I think.

Edited January 7, 2017 by uhoh7

[lct]

No idea about digilloyd but my 28/2 v1 & v2 have no focus shift at all.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[uhoh7]

No idea about digilloyd but my 28/2 v1 & v2 have no focus shift at all.

It's obvious there have been some off copies of the v2. He must have got one. With a microscope, or a very sharp eye like Ron's you might find a touch, but in context with other f2 lenses it should not be an issue on v1 for sure, and your v2 also, good to hear.

 

I'm really surprised he screams without asking Leica and testing another copy.

Edited January 7, 2017 by uhoh7