My 240 is too fat ... it needs to go on a diet

[Go Figure]

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Packed it up and shipped it back - end of story.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[menos I M6]

I am one of the people who think Leica took the digital M in a wrong direction with the M10 - too much camera.

 

I never cared about the LED frame lines and MUCH prefer the old frame line illumination (it's there all the time, even when the camera is off or asleep, it's not blindingly bright, but just the right amount of illumination for me - I never missed anything with the old frame lines).

 

I absolutely abhor the thumbwheel design decision (basically Leica has broken up one complex but refined and proven UI element into two separate elements and instead of quick and intuitive thumb movements you have to move your thumb around a lot more now - a big step backwards in speed).

Before actually trying it out, I seriously expected the thumbwheel to at least feature a press in function like the wheel on the Leica S which I am used to - imagine the letdown when I used my MM2 for the first time.

 

I truly hope Leica will will refocus and bring all their effort to a new M which again goes back to the roots of their slogan "Das Wesentliche" because the M10 is anything but.

 

The decisions about the M10 batteries is also a very bad one. Basically Leica had to go to such large and heavy high capacity batteries because it needed to sell a camera that does live view, offer a third rate electronic viewfinder and offer third rate video functionality. Because of those non-features, EVERYONE who uses a M10 germination camera has to lug around those honking batteries now at all time.

I wish for a new battery type, half that size, no LCD, no nonsense features, ambient light frame line illumination - a camera almost met by the new M-D (a nice save of the botched up M10 - I congratulate the people fighting inside the company to realize that project).

[indergaard]

I am one of the people who think Leica took the digital M in a wrong direction with the M10 - too much camera.

 

I never cared about the LED frame lines and MUCH prefer the old frame line illumination (it's there all the time, even when the camera is off or asleep, it's not blindingly bright, but just the right amount of illumination for me - I never missed anything with the old frame lines).

 

I absolutely abhor the thumbwheel design decision (basically Leica has broken up one complex but refined and proven UI element into two separate elements and instead of quick and intuitive thumb movements you have to move your thumb around a lot more now - a big step backwards in speed).

Before actually trying it out, I seriously expected the thumbwheel to at least feature a press in function like the wheel on the Leica S which I am used to - imagine the letdown when I used my MM2 for the first time.

 

I truly hope Leica will will refocus and bring all their effort to a new M which again goes back to the roots of their slogan "Das Wesentliche" because the M10 is anything but.

 

The decisions about the M10 batteries is also a very bad one. Basically Leica had to go to such large and heavy high capacity batteries because it needed to sell a camera that does live view, offer a third rate electronic viewfinder and offer third rate video functionality. Because of those non-features, EVERYONE who uses a M10 germination camera has to lug around those honking batteries now at all time.

I wish for a new battery type, half that size, no LCD, no nonsense features, ambient light frame line illumination - a camera almost met by the new M-D (a nice save of the botched up M10 - I congratulate the people fighting inside the company to realize that project).

 

In regards to the battery, I totally disagree. Since the battery capacity is so high in the M240 series cameras, nobody never needs to carry around a spare... Unlike with the M9/MM1 cameras, where spares are essential to carry around.

 

It's very unlikely that the battery size was determined by LV and Video functions. Users of the M9/MM1 was complaining about battery life for a long time, and wished for a bigger battery.

 

I want a smaller and lighter battery, but not at the sacrifice of capacity. And I never use LV or Video of my M240. If the battery capacity is reduced to make a smaller and lighter battery, then I will notice a difference regardless of LV and Video functionality (which is never used, so it doesn't use more battery).

 

I find the thumb wheel to be nice. It's leaps and bounds better than the circular wheel on the M9/MM1, which was just horrible to use and felt extremely plasticky and cheap.

[Manoleica]

M too heavy - It's an easy fix" sell it" Then go buy a plastic P&S Pany with a Leica lens!!! Amazing what people moan about..L

[jaapv]

I think your post lacks a few IMO's, Dirk

It must be my hands - after getting used to the digital M cameras, which are all the same in thickness, I find the film Ms somewhat thin to grip comfortably. I notice this particularly as I am presently shooting film and digital together.

This is even more pronounced when using modern lenses like the various Summiluxes amongst others, which tend to be larger and heavier, making a thin film M front-heavy and a bit akward to hold without an additional grip. My Summilux 50 asph (chrome) goes onto the M240, my Elmar-M 50 2.8 coll. goes on the M6 classic. Perfect :).

[lct]

Bit sad to say that but i use my M240 less and less i must say. I'm still an RF lover but simple things on other cameras are too complicated if not impossible on the M240. I won't "pack it up and ship it back" as suggested above because the RF part of the camera is almost perfect for me but i will think twice before ordering the next M if serious improvements are not implemented in it. I will keep my "fat M" though for the quality of its optical rangefinder.

[AndrewDD]

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I couldn't disagree with Dirk more. The M240 is by far the best camera I've ever owned. The battery is great - it runs forever, and you never need to take a spare. I bought one, and have never needed it in 3 years - every other camera I've ever had I've needed at least 2 spare batteries. The extra size people moan about amounts to a couple of millimetres - just don't put it in an overpriced leather case then! I don't. Stripped out versions like the M-D might come in useful as short-run specials for collectors towards the end of the product life-cycle, but would be disastrous as a strategic move by Leica. Personally I don't use live view, an electronic viewfinder, or video, but if they help sell the camera that's fine by me - by increasing potential sales they probably actually make the camera cheaper. Not having an LCD is an absolute showstopper. I would never, under any circumstances, buy a camera without one - for studio work in particular it would be ridiculous.

We live in a technological world, and Leica have to put technology in their cameras to survive.

[colonel]

I am not sure there is much in the weight, the Leica M240 is 680g, the Leica M7 is 610g, the Leica MP is 585g, the Leica M262 is 580g

 

This is terribly overblown. And with the 240 and 262 you get amazing battery life, and fantastic thumb rest and more purchase for f1.4 and telephoto lenses ...

 

I never feel comfortable using the MP and my 35mm f1.4 Zeiss .... but f1.4 is even more required for film IMHO. Maybe Leica should bring out a M7.2 with an extra mm or two

[Peter H]

The M 240 is a fine camera, and no other manufacturer combines simplicity of operation with quality of output as successfully as Leica does. Despite the inevitable quibbles (you'll never please everyone; some people actually like green ones!) the M240 is a marvellous and unique achievement.

 

Leica, I hope you make the next M as great an improvement over the M240 as that was over the M9. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I am one of the people who think Leica took the digital M in a wrong direction with the M10 - too much camera.

 

I never cared about the LED frame lines and MUCH prefer the old frame line illumination (it's there all the time, even when the camera is off or asleep, it's not blindingly bright, but just the right amount of illumination for me - I never missed anything with the old frame lines).

 

I absolutely abhor the thumbwheel design decision (basically Leica has broken up one complex but refined and proven UI element into two separate elements and instead of quick and intuitive thumb movements you have to move your thumb around a lot more now - a big step backwards in speed).

Before actually trying it out, I seriously expected the thumbwheel to at least feature a press in function like the wheel on the Leica S which I am used to - imagine the letdown when I used my MM2 for the first time.

 

I truly hope Leica will will refocus and bring all their effort to a new M which again goes back to the roots of their slogan "Das Wesentliche" because the M10 is anything but.

 

The decisions about the M10 batteries is also a very bad one. Basically Leica had to go to such large and heavy high capacity batteries because it needed to sell a camera that does live view, offer a third rate electronic viewfinder and offer third rate video functionality. Because of those non-features, EVERYONE who uses a M10 germination camera has to lug around those honking batteries now at all time.

I wish for a new battery type, half that size, no LCD, no nonsense features, ambient light frame line illumination - a camera almost met by the new M-D (a nice save of the botched up M10 - I congratulate the people fighting inside the company to realize that project).

 

I thanked you although I disagree with most of your post. You put your points forward against the tide clearly and honestly. However.......

 

The reason I don't use my M9 and always choose to take the M with me is the additional battery power, live view and the new wheel. The wheel on the M9 felt cheap and out of place on a camera like the M. I do agree a push function would have been useful. Live view means I can use wide lenses and telephotos without carrying multiple finders and with more accurate focusing. Now instead of carrying a Frankenfinder and magnifiers, I carry a little EVF. The battery capacity is my favourite upgrade. As a working photographer I often need to take hundreds of photos in a day. With my Fuji cameras I need to carry 10 batteries. With my Sony's I need to carry 7 batteries. With the M9 I needed to carry 7 batteries. With my M I need to carry three. One in each camera and a spare. While changing batteries isn't the end of the world, it's a little convenience I greatly appreciate.

 

So for me the M means I am carrying less, not more than before. The M has made it less complicated, for me than it was with the M. For me the M is more  "Das Wesentliche" than the M9.

 

Gordon

[Peter H]

.....There are other improvements in the M240 that matter a great deal to me, such as the improved viewfinder, (I notice and am grateful for this every single day) ,the quieter shutter, the weather sealing, the more positive on-off switch that doesn't get me inadvertently shooting in Continuous mode like the M9 often did, and dare I say it, a better LCD which has enabled me to get some important photos that would have been impossible with the M9. Greater DR and better low-light performance are nice too. 

 

Some of these are small improvements, but the total adds up to a much more reliable, more straight-forward, more capable and useful camera. A heavier battery is a tiny price to pay, in my opinion.

[bocaburger]

 

 

I never cared about the LED frame lines and MUCH prefer the old frame line illumination (it's there all the time, even when the camera is off or asleep, it's not blindingly bright, but just the right amount of illumination for me - I never missed anything with the old frame lines).

 

I absolutely abhor the thumbwheel design decision

 

Basically Leica had to go to such large and heavy high capacity batteries because it needed to sell a camera that does live view, offer a third rate electronic viewfinder and offer third rate video functionality.

 

I wish for a new battery type, half that size, no LCD, no nonsense features, ambient light frame line illumination - a camera almost met by the new M-D

 

 

I agree with all of your post I snipped.  If Leica made the M-D with ambient frame illumination and somehow shrunk it back to M6 size I would have bought it.  Given that they did not do that, and it is virtually the same size as an M240, I prefer to have all the features they deleted from it (and the M262) available at my option. 

[jaapv]

I wholly agree with Peter. I will happily use the M9, but I would be foolish to deny the improvements the M Typ 240 offers - and it shows in technically better photographs, easier focusing, better framing, less motion blur, etc. Nostalgia does not make a better tool.

[ramarren]

Wake me when the moaning and whinging is over. I've read all this about ten thousand times already. 

 

I like my M-P typ 240 a lot. I'd also love an M-D typ 262. The size and weight are perfect. 

[hoppyman]

Mark, the Original Poster has put his M (Typ 240) on the ultimate elimination diet apparently (disposed of it)   
What are you shooting with in its place then Mark?
I had travelled with the Multi-Function Grip on mine, mainly for the extra handhold, but picking up my old M9 (now with a friend) cemented for me that the combination had just grown too large for my personal preference, as a travel camera. I think that the M9 body and battery was about 600g compared to about 680g for my M (Typ 240). In my hands at least I really noticed the difference (side by side). Hardly huge of course but then most of my photography is with the S system now so these all feel teeny!

I guess we'll see how the thread develops now. This isn't a new topic of course but .......perhaps post Photokina????

[jdlaing]

Wake me when the moaning and whinging is over. I've read all this about ten thousand times already. 

 

I like my M-P typ 240 a lot. I'd also love an M-D typ 262. The size and weight are perfect. 

 

You'll be asleep for a while..........

[flyalf]

I welcome the new battery in M. Its also much better than M9 in sub-zero cold. A small price to pay in particular when considering other added functionality.

[jmahto]

I welcome the new battery in M. Its also much better than M9 in sub-zero cold. A small price to pay in particular when considering other added functionality.

+1

 

However, I had a chance to use M9 battery in subzero temp couple of times and it didn't disappoint me. M240 is even better.

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Hallo,

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[kenf]

I strongly considered an M9-P before I bought my M-P, and one of the deciding factors was the M9-Ps thumbwheel - I truly dislike the design and prefer the 240's implementation including the thumbswell. 

 

I would prefer it if the digital Ms were the same thickness as the film bodies - but I want a pony too. Neither are going to happen. 

[Go Figure]

if Leica had thought of displaying shutter speeds as they already did in the M5 or the Cl (40+ years ago),

 and would not have opted to pursue the idiotic Japanese/Minolta CLE way,

we would not have to deal with ratcheting shutter speed or other wheels nor have any thickness issues.

The Q finally brought the legacy of those cameras back ... and from first hand information

I know that it is flying of the shelves at such a speed  that I am worried about the future of the M

as we know it. The rangefinder was always a specialty camera but it survived by the continued

use of a dedicated hand full of photographers which in turn served the company as bait

to sell it to doctors and lawyers to put it on a pedestal or carry it around the neck.

The M240 is trying too hard to make the camera useful in the hands

of the average user. I am not sure how many of you have cast a bamboo fly rod 

but those of you who did will understand where I am coming from. Hope this helps ...