The Leica M-D thread - merged.

[colonel]

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In my mind, what Leica needs to do with the M is improve its electronics: buffer, evf, noise, start-up, heat noise vs exposure times, freezing issues, wifi connectivity, etc.  There is no contradiction between a simple body and digitally sophisticated innards. Once they make these incremental improvements, the M cameras, whichever you chose, will be close to perfect.

 

but it does every time it releases a new body !!!! I am fine with a 3-4 year release

 

the only one above I disagree with is freezing. I know it happens but in a series of M8s, M9s and M240s I think I have had a freeze once ...

I seem to remember another camera freezing on me - can't remember which one though

 

I also can't belive how much Erwin misunderstands the M after decades of understanding:

"The M on the other hand is a niche camera at the end of its development cycle. Introducing a hybrid or electronic view/rangefinder would and AF would put it in direct competition with the SL and introducing a new sensor with a higher pixel number would jeopardize the SL and S cameras lines"

 

The M is a rangefinder. It will never be AF. If it is, its another type of camera altogether, say like a T or SL say, !!!!!

Leica will make it whilst it still sells. And it still sell lots IMHO as there are those who prize its beautiful, thoughtful and transparent way of making photographs.

I have shot many other cameras. No doubt, and subject to great flame, the "best" 35mm camera out at the moment is the Sony A7Rii. I can go into chapter and verse for pages on why its so. But the quality of Leica lenses and sensor interpretation, combined with the rangefinder and workflow, is the only system I care to pick up, again and again, when I don't need to. All other systems I pick up when I need them ... Its a real love affair and doesn't have much downside medically, except for bankruptites

Edited May 13, 2016 by colonel

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[jaapv]

Well, yes, but I fail to see the relevance of the remarks about consumerism - if one camera company resists it is Leica.

I find the model structure of the M series quite smart. A fully featured model with niche-oriented offshoots and a base model with previous generation technology.

As for end-of development, I doubt that. The venerable rangefinder offers plenty of scope for modernizing, the 240 has  aspects that can be improved, like the EVF/LV and Video module.

[Adam]

but it does every time it releases a new body !!!! I am fine with a 3-4 year release

 

the only one above I disagree with is freezing. I know it happens but in a series of M8s, M9s and M240s I think I have had a freeze once ...

I seem to remember another camera freezing on me - can't remember which one though

 

I agree. What I meant is when/if they introduce these incremental improvements with the next M, it will be close to perfect.

 

Obviously, I would also wish that Leica would try to improve firmware in existing cameras as much as possible. Small improvements are still possible with the current M, my pet peeves: lack of shutter speed in OVF in M mode, and more customization in ISO settings.

[ramarren]

I shoot MF, hand held, right along side my Leica and APS-C as well.  Naked, of the three, the Leica is the most likely it hit the floor.  Its the only camera I own that has a strap on it.  Sorry, I love the M for its soul, not for its body or button count.  Have fun with the new toy.  

 

 

What "new toy" would that be? The only new camera I've bought since the SL is the new Impossible I-1 instant film camera, which has little to do with discussion of the M-D. 

[Adam]

 consumerism - if one camera company resists it is Leica.

 

But their resistance seems to be futile

 

Panda:

http://leicarumors.com/2016/01/26/leica-m-p-panda-limited-edition-camera-announced-in-asia.aspx/

 

Hermes:

http://leicarumors.com/2012/05/10/new-leica-limited-editions-leica-m9-p-edition-hermes-leica-m9-p-edition-hermes-serie-limitee-jean-louis-dumas.aspx/

 

Kravitz:

http://leicarumors.com/2015/02/24/leica-m-p-correspondent-by-lenny-kravitz-for-kravitz-design-special-limited-edition-camera-officially-announced.aspx/

[Tailwagger]

But their resistance seems to be futile

 

Panda:

http://leicarumors.com/2016/01/26/leica-m-p-panda-limited-edition-camera-announced-in-asia.aspx/

 

Hermes:

http://leicarumors.com/2012/05/10/new-leica-limited-editions-leica-m9-p-edition-hermes-leica-m9-p-edition-hermes-serie-limitee-jean-louis-dumas.aspx/

 

Kravitz:

http://leicarumors.com/2015/02/24/leica-m-p-correspondent-by-lenny-kravitz-for-kravitz-design-special-limited-edition-camera-officially-announced.aspx/

 

Sigh...

[jaapv]

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Special editions are not a model strategy They are a way of generating cash outside of regular production, time-honoured to be sure, but nothing more.

[Adam]

understanding:

 

"consumerism - if one camera company resists it is Leica"

 

as: 

 

"a model strategy - if one camera company resists it is Leica"

 

is being too harsh on Leica    

 

PS.  In the domain of economics, "consumerism" refers to economic policies placing emphasis on consumption. In an abstract sense, it is the consideration that the free choice of consumers should strongly orient the choice by manufacturers of what is produced and how, and therefore orient the economic organization of a society (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumerism)

 

Based on the above, Leica special editions are 'time-honored' examples of consumerism 

[jaapv]

I think yours is a fine bit of sophism.

The better exegesis of my post would be that Leica  tends to resist going with the general trends in photography, sometimes to the point of nearly losing the market altogether.

[enboe]

So, why do they recommend case 14547 which covers the frame selector lever instead of 14888 which was deigned specifically not to block that useful lever?

 

(also interested in the new "utomatic control on page 92".)

 

e.

[enboe]

A few user observations from my inaugural trip with the M-D today.  Kit:  Leica M-D and new 35/2.0/ASPH+E39 UVa Leica filter, no 14888 case on while being used, case used for transport only.

 

Summary - I am well-pleased.  

 

Handling was very "M Digital", with the body weight and grip similar to the M240/246 series cameras.  Of course there was no screen on the back, and I caught myself checking the back more than a few times in tricky lighting to see if I achieved the correct exposure.  I would not have checked the back of a film M, and will retrain those muscle memories with the fat-body M so as not to waste the time.  This is definitely a, "wear all day" type of camera that does not cause fatigue.

 

Exposures were consistently 0.25-0.75 stops underexposed, which is just about perfect if you wish to ensure no overexposed highlights.  I used my typical, "nodding" exposure technique I developed from M6/M7 use when I noted scenes had large expanses of sky or other high-key elements.  It works like a charm.  Note on exposure, I did miss bumping up the ISO on three out of 148 frames causing a very slow shutter speed when I was grabbing a photo quickly.  No more AUTO ISO, so you have to keep that in mind as well.

 

The camera was very power efficient, achieving 148 exposures in 15% of a battery.  This extrapolates to nearly 1000 exposures per charge.  Inviting disaster, I am considering taking just one spare battery along for a week-long vacation, no chargers or cables needed.  I expect to shoot around 150 shots per day X 8 days for 1200 total.  With 2 batteries, this should give me ample margin.

 

The black paint finish is more in line with the 262 than a black lacquer MP, so I would expect a good amount of use before brassing starts.  Label me strange, but I think I could see myself using this camera enough that I won't mind brassing it.

 

Oh, and the 35/2.0/ASPH/II did a fine job with corner-to-corner sharpness, no surprises there.

 

If all goes well, I will give the kit a more thorough wringing out on a 10-day trip starting next Saturday.

 

Eric

[Stevez4]

Leica has informed me that my MD's poor battery life is due to the lack of an automatic power cutoff switch such as the 240,246,262 all have.  They write me " due to "special request of our customers the Product Management the technicians have cut this useful feature for reaspns only they will know.  Sorry for the inconvenience. The appropriate PM has told me that they will add this useful feature with the next firmware up-dater."

 

I am used to keeping my camera on *S* during the day so as never to miss a shot.  This is the first Leica I have owned that does not power off.   I get 6 hours of actual use from a battery.  My M60 Goes for days without the battery dying.  I suppose this may be a petty annoyance to some users.

 

Other than this issue, the camera is great.

 

 

 

Stevez4

[jcraf]

Also fell foul of this yesterday. Inadvertently left my M-D switched on overnight sitting on my desk. 100% battery. Completely dead by the morning. Would not have been an issue with other digital Ms.

 

Luckily I checked and have time to charge it before going out to a meet today. 

 

The cut off feature needs to be enabled.

[rochus]

Had a conversation with Leica and got confirmed that a firmware update including auto power cutoff is coming soon.

 

 

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[Stevez4]

Dont Hold Your Breath waitimg for a firmware update.  Just carry an extra battery and enjoy.  It is the only digital camera that approaches the M7 feeling.

[jcraf]

Dont Hold Your Breath waitimg for a firmware update.  Just carry an extra battery and enjoy.  It is the only digital camera that approaches the M7 feeling.

Oh, I am enjoying it! Of all the digital Ms, the M-D should be the least reliant on the user carrying a spare battery . Das Wesentliche, and all that.

[BerndReini]

I'm a little concerned about the auto-shut-off feature. I guess it depends on how long it will stay on before it shuts off. It is incredibly frustrating when you shoot selectively and you have to wake up the camera before you can capture a moment. I guess this is where it gets tricky not having a menu to make these selections yourself.

[menos I M6]

I'd rather have a true 2 position on/off switch like on the M7 and a camera that will NOT auto sleep or auto switch off.

 

If you forget to switch it off, that's on you.

If you plan to shoot the whole day long - take a spare battery or switch on/off the camera when not in use for a longer time.

 

Dealing with those moment when you raise the camera to your eye, and find the camera unresponsive as it is just taking it's time to wake up - THAT is unacceptable.

This is why I always either set my digital M bodies to never shut off or at least shut off at the longest time possible to set (10min I remember).

 

I also developed the nervous habit of regularly "waking the meter up" by tapping the shutter release from time to time - a habit only necessary with Leica digital cameras I am afraid (no other digital I ever used is as sluggish once it went into deep sleep).

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[BerndReini]

 

 

I also developed the nervous habit of regularly "waking the meter up" by tapping the shutter release from time to time - a habit only necessary with Leica digital cameras I am afraid (no other digital I ever used is as sluggish once it went into deep sleep).

I do the same thing, and I still get caught sometimes. Very annoying.

[jaapv]

Hmm. I just switch automatic shutdown off in such cases.