ZHNL Posted June 25, 2016 Share #241 Posted June 25, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) with a linear profile CCD or CMOS are looking exactly the same , the difference is a legend I wish that is true. My past experience tell me differently. With experience with so many different camera, the color signature of different camera/sensor is so obvious to me. Unless I want spend time to post process on each image I took, it is impossible to have images looks the same. Keep in mind, there are so many variables here, hardware, (CFA filter, AA filter etc...) Software (profile, tone curve etc...), Hence, I always have preference on one over the others. Color is very difficult topic always, each person has his own opinion about which one is better, in addition to that, some people just have more sensitive eyes for color. I can make S007 looks pretty close to S006, but I still have strong preference for S006's color, especially for skin tone. So, my comment is really based on my personal experience which may not apply to others. but to me, S006's color is one of reason I like about S system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 25, 2016 Posted June 25, 2016 Hi ZHNL, Take a look here State of S. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
cirke Posted June 25, 2016 Share #242 Posted June 25, 2016 with a linear profile or without ? your personal experience seems not to be based on pro linear profile look at that french thread , the 2 graphics http://www.chassimages.com/forum/index.php/topic,255266.200.html Hasselblad CCD vs Hasselblad CMOS with a linear profile, it is not a matter of opinion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted June 25, 2016 Share #243 Posted June 25, 2016 with a linear profile or without ? your personal experience seems not to be based on pro linear profile look at that french thread , the 2 graphics http://www.chassimages.com/forum/index.php/topic,255266.200.html Hasselblad CCD vs Hasselblad CMOS with a linear profile, it is not a matter of opinion I can't read french. I have gone through matching profile use color checker with no luck. It is a more complicate issue than a simple software profile. I have used 6D, 5dII, D700, D800E, D810, A7R, A7, M9, M240, SL S006/007. IT IS NOT ONLY AN OPINION, period. Hardware is different, RAW is different, software/profile is different. There is no linear profile. (each different camera's raw data has gone through filter which is hardware ) especially under different lighting condition, matching camera color results will be even more difficult. And each camera have different strength on resolve different color hue resolution as well, for example, Nikon usually can resolve Green better than Canon but not for orange and red. Camera sees color differently and you see color differently as well. No need to prove anything. I don't care it is a CCD or CMOS, I only care what I see on my calibrated screen under varies condition. For people have extensive photoshop skill with all kinds of color grade tech, and lots of time, this may be a less concern. but for me, I don't have the skill and time to spend on each image I took to do extensive color work, so I pick the camera with color please me the most, as simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted June 25, 2016 Share #244 Posted June 25, 2016 the basic color checker is not good , it must be done with pro tools by a pro and Colorchecker SG or this http://www.basiccolor.de/basiccolor-input-5-en/ Get a perfect linear profile and you will see a huge difference RAW is different, software/profile is different. There is no linear profile You have no idea of what is a linear profile, but I give up, do and believe what you want I can't read french look only the graphics CMOS vs CCD with a linear profile , they are exactly the same Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted June 25, 2016 Share #245 Posted June 25, 2016 the basic color checker is not good , it must be done with pro tools by a pro and Colorchecker SG or this http://www.basiccolor.de/basiccolor-input-5-en/ Get a perfect linear profile and you will see a huge difference You have no idea of what is a linear profile This become funny. Please entertain me about liner profile. This magic LINEAR profile can take care 16 bit RGB color depth 2^16x 2^16x 2^16=2^48 which is 281,474,976,710,656 after RAW data filtered by CFA&AA filter under all different light condition. GREAT! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted June 25, 2016 Share #246 Posted June 25, 2016 High MP is worse than just marketing hype. It puts extra constraints on lens design so that certain looks become untenable in the quest for sharpness at 100%. The current S line does a wonderful job, but I'd hate to see the OOF regions suffer for the sake of more perfection at the plane of focus. 100MP is great for Rodenstock optics at f/11. I don't know how great it will look with a 100/2 or 35/2.5. --Matt You might be right on all accounts but now that Pentax and also Hasselblad are below the $10K price point I don't see how a 37MP camera selling at $16K can remain commercially viable... Either Leica significantly lowers the price, or they significantly raise the number of MPs, I don't see any other way... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrayson3 Posted June 25, 2016 Share #247 Posted June 25, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) You might be right on all accounts but now that Pentax and also Hasselblad are below the $10K price point I don't see how a 37MP camera selling at $16K can remain commercially viable... Either Leica significantly lowers the price, or they significantly raise the number of MPs, I don't see any other way... Possible, on the other hand, Leica manual focus lens prices have been much higher than their competitors' AF lenses for decades and they haven't gone out of business. The only professional I know well who uses an S has no complaints about his 40"x60" prints. Somehow, using an A7RII instead because it has more pixels has never occurred to him. I certainly understand the desire to defend the brand or a purchase decision by having favorable specs, but that has never been a strong argument for the S system. Actually, I would love for Leica to come out with a 60MP S so that I could get an S(007) for the same ridiculously low price as my (006) . Leica aren't stupid, and I certainly hope they have good things in their pipeline. Best, Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynp Posted June 25, 2016 Share #248 Posted June 25, 2016 Actually, I would love for Leica to come out with a 60MP S so that I could get an S(007) for the same ridiculously low price as my (006) Best, Matt +1 Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted June 25, 2016 Share #249 Posted June 25, 2016 You might be right on all accounts but now that Pentax and also Hasselblad are below the $10K price point I don't see how a 37MP camera selling at $16K can remain commercially viable... Either Leica significantly lowers the price, or they significantly raise the number of MPs, I don't see any other way... $16K? That's for the 006 right? The 007 seems to be a lot more than that. I think I agree. Partly because I bought a Pentax instead of a type 007. Now with the new Hasselblad on the market 10-12K is going to become an accepted entry price into medium format. Everything else better have something very special to bring if they're going to command higher prices. I didn't buy the Pentax because of the MP count. It only has 300 more pixels horizontally than an A7R2. It was the DR, noise floor and larger pixels that make the difference. With a similar pixel count bigger is better. It would be a smart move for Leica to slowly reduce the cost of the bodies, even if they made up for it with a modest price increase for the lenses. Make the camera 3K cheaper and add $800 to each lens. People don't seem to have the same psychological barriers with regard to lenses as they do to bodies, which are considered disposable. Or make a 45MP SL body and leave the S as a niche item. When the new sensor comes make a S-E 007 for 10-12K and a S008 for 18K. Leica will need to give people a way for people to enter the S market without a 50K investment. This is what the X1D does for Hasselblad. Get them in with a *cheap* body and a couple of lenses. Then hook them up with an adaptor and lenses for the bigger system which makes a medium term move to a H body seem logical. Leica could do the same with a cheaper S-E body and a few f3.5 lenses. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddhaarta Posted June 25, 2016 Share #250 Posted June 25, 2016 The S prices are already under pressure, at least in EU. Prices, I have seen today incl. VAT for new items with guarantee: S 007: 15.240 EUR S 006: 11.000 EUR S-E: 10.000 EUR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus2000 Posted June 25, 2016 Share #251 Posted June 25, 2016 The S prices are already under pressure, at least in EU. Prices, I have seen today incl. VAT for new items with guarantee: S 007: 15.240 EUR S 006: 11.000 EUR S-E: 10.000 EUR In the UK you can get the S006 + 70mm lens for less than £8k, which even after the weaking of the pound makes it less than 10K euros. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddhaarta Posted June 25, 2016 Share #252 Posted June 25, 2016 Correction S-E: 6.900 EUR incl. VAT Obviously all this S006 and S-E sales are to empty the stock. Then CCD will be history. More interesting is to observe S 007 prices going down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georges Posted June 27, 2016 Share #253 Posted June 27, 2016 I have seen two weeks ago a brand new 006 for 8,000 usd. Even before the X1D announcement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynp Posted June 27, 2016 Share #254 Posted June 27, 2016 They dropped the prices on some of the S lenses in Moscow. Maybe it's a local fluctuation. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted June 27, 2016 Share #255 Posted June 27, 2016 Possible, on the other hand, Leica manual focus lens prices have been much higher than their competitors' AF lenses for decades and they haven't gone out of business. The only professional I know well who uses an S has no complaints about his 40"x60" prints. Somehow, using an A7RII instead because it has more pixels has never occurred to him. I certainly understand the desire to defend the brand or a purchase decision by having favorable specs, but that has never been a strong argument for the S system. Actually, I would love for Leica to come out with a 60MP S so that I could get an S(007) for the same ridiculously low price as my (006) . Leica aren't stupid, and I certainly hope they have good things in their pipeline. Best, Matt I'm done with the high cost and poor workmanship of the S system. I've had the M system and it was wonderful, if you looked after it it would still look like New Years later, not something you can say about the S. I drive a Porsche and paid a premium price for it. I don't see the door handles falling off or the leather on the dashboard pealing off. So my bitch is why is it that when we buy leica's premium top of the range camera at a premium price we get hundreds of lenses failing, the leather covering coming off and looking at the S thread many other problems...........It's just unacceptable. I'm glad I got that off my chest Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sog1927 Posted June 27, 2016 Share #256 Posted June 27, 2016 I'm done with the high cost and poor workmanship of the S system. I've had the M system and it was wonderful, if you looked after it it would still look like New Years later, not something you can say about the S. I still use my grandfather's 2 Leica IIIfs on occasion. They're both older than I am (I'm 60). I finally had to replace the shutter curtains in them 3 or 4 years ago. Somehow, I'm not expecting to see that sort of longevity out of my S. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share #257 Posted July 6, 2016 Here is an article comparing S2 with the 5DS R. While it is the S2 and not the 007, it still goes to show you how good these cameras are, relatively speaking. https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-2274/reflex-canon-5DSR-test-terrain-18.html&prev=search S2: http://img1.focus-numerique.com/focus/articles/2274/antoine-schneck-leica-s2-f16.jpg 5DS R: http://img1.focus-numerique.com/focus/articles/2274/antoine-schneck-canon-5ds-r-f16.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamdewilde Posted July 20, 2016 Share #258 Posted July 20, 2016 ZHNL is right. The S-007 vs the S-006 there are color differences that you can't get to match no mater how you profile your cameras. I've spent quite a bit on color profiling software and hardware. I'd call it pro+ at this point. It's not to say that you can't get them to match, or that the S-007 isn't a good camera. It's just to say that consistently you can't replace the S-006 with the S-007 if you like the look of the S-006. Neil D is also right. Leica builds subpar products (construction wise) and charges a premium for them. But if you know where to look, you can find good deals that offset the premium you'd otherwise have to pay. Because Leica also runs their business like crap there's a lot of pricing variations and price drops only 1-2 months after release. The company is also run by people who don't care about customer loyalty. They just want a quick buck and to tap into this collectors market. With that said, I'm selling all my Leica gear, eventually when I can. Because right now the used market is shit because of pricing policies. They're definitely not a company that one would consider professional. If you can make the products work for you then that's great. But at the current prices, having duplicates of all my work gear is ridiculous. Especially when resale value has tanked. I'm loosing way to much owning doubles/triples of everything because I don't have faith in Leica repairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted July 20, 2016 Share #259 Posted July 20, 2016 Hahahaha, well, people are very tolerant of Leica cause it's Leica, the best, even their customer service is so good that you have to use it more often, cause it's the best, so why don't we use it more! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted July 21, 2016 Share #260 Posted July 21, 2016 If I remember how many lenses from Pentax, Nikon and Canon I had to send in for calibration , broken AF (Nikond and Pentax) I dont see Leica to be any worse. If I look on the optical consistent quality of lenses/ variation I do see however a real advantage of Leica lenses over those other brands. That and the user interface (clearly a matter of taste) are the reason why I do like those products. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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