BBHewee Posted March 30, 2016 Share #1 Posted March 30, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've just bought this lens second-hand, and it arrived with a bunch of white dots behind the front element. What are they, can they be remedied, etc?Thanks for your help. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/258786-what-are-these-white-dots-behind-my-front-element/?do=findComment&comment=3017559'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 30, 2016 Posted March 30, 2016 Hi BBHewee, Take a look here What are these white dots behind my front element?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Herr Barnack Posted March 30, 2016 Share #2 Posted March 30, 2016 This phenomenon is called Schneideritis, so named due to the fact that it seems to affect Schneider large format lenses more frequently than lenses manufactured by other lens makers. It is rare among Leica lenses, but it does happen once in a great while. It can affect lenses made by other manufacturers and is not limited to Schneider lenses. What has happened is this: Over time, the non-reflective black paint applied to the edges of the individual glass lens elements can start to separate from the glass surface to which it has been applied; this may be caused by the effect that the adhesive used to secure the lens elements has on the paint. Since the lens elements are set in the element mount, the paint hardly ever comes loose and circulates around in the lens. Based on what I have read, this is a cosmetic flaw and does not affect the performance or resolution of the lens; the only real impact od Schneideritis seems to be on resale value of the afflicted lens. If you Google Schneideritis, you will find more than a few discussions of this phenomenon on various large format photography forums. Bottom line - it's not pretty to look at, but doesn't affect image quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBHewee Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share #3 Posted March 30, 2016 Thanks. Would you happen to know whether a CLA would fix the issue and alleviate my OCD? My internet research yields different answers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdk Posted March 30, 2016 Share #4 Posted March 30, 2016 It looks like your old 21mm lens may have been dropped at some point, or some other stress has caused the glue joining several optical elements has begun to fail leading to separations between the glue-glass surfaces. I think it is unlikely to be easily repaired as it would require de-cementing and regluing the elements and recollimating the lens. But I could be wrong and it might be oily residue on air-glass surfaces, which could be cleaned off. Take it to a professional for a better evaluation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted March 30, 2016 Share #5 Posted March 30, 2016 I have an early '50s Zunow 50 f1.1 with very bad separation of the black paint from the edges of the glass elements. The only cure is to remove each element, scrape off the old paint, apply new, and reassemble. Quite costly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBHewee Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share #6 Posted March 30, 2016 Thanks to all. Looks like I may send it to Will van Manen and see if he can do anything. Otherwise it's going back to the seller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 30, 2016 Share #7 Posted March 30, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Does the seller have a returns policy? Even big, famous, Scottish on-line resellers will not take back a faulty lens if it isn't returned within 7 days. I know, to my cost. Worth bearing in mind if you are going to send it to a 3rd party repairer. I'd be more worried about that nasty gash at 1 o'clock in your photograph. I'd send it back to the place I bought it from, if I were you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spydrxx Posted March 30, 2016 Share #8 Posted March 30, 2016 It won't win any prizes in a beauty contest, but it usually doesn't affect the IQ, and as mentioned above is expensive to "fix" which is why people rarely bother. I've only had it affect one lens in over 50 years. If it bothers you, return the lens to the seller instead of keeping it and continually fretting over it. Life's too short. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBHewee Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share #9 Posted March 30, 2016 I've spoken with the seller who has kindly agreed to have it inspected and find a solution. The nasty gash at 1 o'clock is my hasty photoshop skills to hide the serial. Haha. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 30, 2016 Share #10 Posted March 30, 2016 Be careful, if this is an ebay purchase you need to open a 'dispute' within 30 days - I would do this even if the buyer is co-operating, in case they stop co-operating later on! Given the comments above I'm not sure what they can do to 'find a solution' other than agreeing to take it back and refund you, assuming that's what you want, or coming to some agreement about a reduced price in view of the condition. Do you think the seller really didn't notice the problem before? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcraf Posted March 30, 2016 Share #11 Posted March 30, 2016 I'd go for a refund on this one. There are plenty of these lenses around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBHewee Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share #12 Posted March 30, 2016 It was bought off a French forum. Seller is responsive so far, and I have his details. So I'm going to go down the trust route and take it from there. Thanks to all for the kind advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 30, 2016 Share #13 Posted March 30, 2016 Where was that lens shipped from if you don't mind me asking? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibramr Posted March 31, 2016 Share #14 Posted March 31, 2016 Greetings. Perhaps this thread is helpful: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/242798-elmarit-21mm-pre-asph-question/ . The lens in question went to Leica NJ, then to Germany. Germany suggested changing the elements to get rid of the same phenomenon. I declined, and returned the lens back to seller. For the limited opportunities I use the 21mm, a Zeiss f2.8 is more than adequate. Enjoy in good health. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBHewee Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share #15 Posted March 31, 2016 The lens was shipped from Paris. Ibramr thanks. did you Ever quet a quote for the replacement just out of interest? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibramr Posted March 31, 2016 Share #16 Posted March 31, 2016 The lens was shipped from Paris. Ibramr thanks. did you Ever quet a quote for the replacement just out of interest? BBHewee, Yes, I did. I sent the lens to NJ for 6 bit coding and for lens cleaning. NJ determined that two elements must be changed, and it is a job for Germany. Germany advised that the total bill will be $800 inclusive of 6 bit coding. It is my understanding that I could have asked for not coding the lens, and that would have reduced the bill to $500. As always with Leica DC Store and its staff, the process was efficient and courteous. It is noteworthy that the comments pertaining that this phenomenon does not affect the image are correct--I did not see any. However, I was building my lens' set, and doubted the lens' longevity. Size (E60) and weight were also other factors affecting the decision to return the lens and acquire Zeiss ZM 21mm; an excellent solution for a lens used 10% of the time. I returned the lens to vendor, but kept the Leica viewfinder. The viewfinder enhances the joy of using this focal length--and I suggest that its cost must be taken into consideration. Of course, your milage could be different. Best of luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBHewee Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share #17 Posted March 31, 2016 Thanks for all the information. Much much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted April 2, 2016 Share #18 Posted April 2, 2016 I knew it was a pre-ASPH 21 Elmarit the moment I read your post, before I saw the image. A lot of lenses may have that issue (perishing of the blackening on the edges of the elements) but the configuration of that lens makes them visible from the front. Mine doesn't have it but I've seen many that did. Never could tell a bit of difference in the photos, even shooting straight into a light source. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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