Convince me to buy a film M

[Jeff S]

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I bet Leica considers his comments on the SL and S as something other than dogmatic....or even harsh, for that matter.  For a guy who has seemingly been solidly in the Leica camp over the years, his recent commentary against some of their products and strategy goes well beyond the film/digital debate.

 

Jeff

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[ravenstor]

there is also a handy darkroom locator http://www.localdarkroom.com which is nice if you have one near you that you can use and enjoy :-) 

[jaapv]

I bet Leica considers his comments on the SL and S as something other than dogmatic....or even harsh, for that matter.  For a guy who has seemingly been solidly in the Leica camp over the years, his recent commentary against some of their products and strategy goes well beyond the film/digital debate.

 

Jeff

I am well aware of his opinion on the M240, SL and mostly the Q, agree to a certain extent and can certainly understand him, but in these articles he appears to overlook the fact that Leica is the only more-or-less mainstream camera builder still building film cameras, and has  introduced a new model recently.

[Jeff S]

I am well aware of his opinion on the M240, SL and mostly the Q, agree to a certain extent and can certainly understand him, but in these articles he appears to overlook the fact that Leica is the only more-or-less mainstream camera builder still building film cameras, and has  introduced a new model recently.

 

He recognizes, not overlooks it.....but he doesn't like it.  As he wrote, "Now that Leica wants to play in the same league as the main digital competitors with appropriate features and performance, the rule of the common denominator becomes unavoidable."

 

He does, however, offer an interesting proposition regarding current Leica platforms...  http://www.imx.nl/photo/blog/files/17e34bcfb01f84a54f001f7fc8b17e2e-37.html

 

Jeff

[the warrior]

 

 

I have not come back, I've never left this is that I never returned to it.

As to your question I must say, you should ask yourself and not others, if you like the film simply return, look at the forums and see many beautiful photographs with film.

With film photography is another life, simple but more complicated, you should know photo to take home not a waste.

The film is another universe, a universe of light and shadow on silver, is magic.

If you are not in that line of thought I just think it can not get it right, with feeling, as the film deserves.

If you are not prepared to expand knowledge I do not think I will do well.

But maybe I'm wrong, I'm just a human being .......

[Guest]

...As to your question I must say, you should ask yourself and not others, if you like the film simply return, look at the forums and see many beautiful photographs with film.

With film photography is another life, simple but more complicated, you should know photo to take home not a waste.

 

The film is another universe, a universe of light and shadow on silver, is magic...

 

 

 

Looking at some of the B&W photographs on your flickr site, on which there are wonderful images shot both with Tri-X and with the M-Monochrom, one could write the same thing about the M-Monochrom as you have written above about film. In other words, often it's not obvious and difficult to decide between these two ways of shooting, although film and scanning certainly involves more work.

[the warrior]

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True, but I like to think that the film is not light invented from zeros and ones, the light is only light of truth on silver.

The film is more work, but I think it's worth, is what I believe, is the essence of photography as was invented, digital offers similar to silver exposed to light naturally result without electronics, without interpretations of engineers.

They are similar but only in its final things, everything else is just technology and imagination of its creator on a drawing board.

There is another very important thing, when we work with a digital look at the screen and see if we have done wrong or if we have done well, this is not learn, this is not knowledge, this is only a method of trial and error, so no learn photography, we deceive ourselves thinking we know something, so we do not know the light or its results according to our understanding and desire, that's easy with digital, does not have merit, it is my opnion.

The machine does it for us and it does so badly because it is a silly thing and not know anything.

The fault is not with the manufacturers of these obsolete and decadent objects with planned obsolescence, it is our fault, blame the consumer who wants easy things, we want to offer us all done, that's a mistake.

 

If a person wants to do photography and that person likes photography should learn photography, otherwise it happens that we see in social networks much garbage all the same.

 

What would the great teachers and artists in photography if they could see what has become of all this today !!!!

In a manual of any camera is written: "Congratulations, you are a great photographer when charging the battery, when taking your camera to the street and when you selecction "P" (panic) and shoot, you should not worry, the camera does all for you. "
 

- YOU ARE ANOTHER BRICK IN A GREAT WALL -

 

 

 

There is a great question you should ask themselves:   "I am an ordinary citizen, .... or I still think  ?? !!.

I still think, machinery has failed to become a "ordinary" citizen.

 

Each person is free to think what they want to do, what you want, but this question hangs over the heads of all of us.

 

But of course I can be wrong ...... I'm just a human being.

 

 

 

 

Greetings.

[colonel]

All because Erwin was a guru in the past doesn't mean every word he says is gospel

 

He clearly doesn't like digital as its too "perfect" and has too many elements to "help" photographers. Probably can't stand that Sony's latest cameras can register your "top faces" at an event, with eye preference focus, to prioritise over others. I hear this is awesome for wedding photogs who embrace it.

 

I love the idea of the Leica with focus, aperture and speed set manually, or semi-auto. concentrating on the core of photography. Furthermore the loading of the film, the winding on. The waiting for the results. All a beautiful experience. Film M's are beautiful to use.

 

But everything has its place. Leica has fingers in many pots, and good for it to do so. Different Photogs have different requirements at different times.

 

"3.1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: 3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; 3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; 3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away; 3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace."

Kohelet

[gwpics]

I moved back to Leica in July last year, and purchased an M9, but up to 13 or 14 years ago I shot a lot with M6 or  M4 cameras. To act as a backup I have just added a M7 to the bag, and have really enjoyed getting back to film, but processing is problem as there is nowhere locally now that handles conventional b&w film, and I was disappointed in the processing of a roll sent back to Ilford. I have therefore decided to use Fuji Neopan 400CN which is a standard C-41 process film producing great b&w negatives. Scanned through the Plustek 8200i scanner you would be hard-pushed to tell they were not digital images. I have attached a shot taken in a local café as an example.

 

I would add that I used to hate darkroom work, and do not wish to go back to my own film processing.

 

JUST DO IT!

 

Gerry

 

 

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[wattsy]

Quite like Fuji Neopan 400 CN myself but not sure I find "you would be hard-pushed to tell they were not digital images" as the selling point.  

 

[sarav]

True, but I like to think that the film is not light invented from zeros and ones, the light is only light of truth on silver.

 

The film is more work, but I think it's worth, is what I believe, is the essence of photography as was invented, digital offers similar to silver exposed to light naturally result without electronics, without interpretations of engineers.

 

They are similar but only in its final things, everything else is just technology and imagination of its creator on a drawing board.

 

There is another very important thing, when we work with a digital look at the screen and see if we have done wrong or if we have done well, this is not learn, this is not knowledge, this is only a method of trial and error, so no learn photography, we deceive ourselves thinking we know something, so we do not know the light or its results according to our understanding and desire, that's easy with digital, does not have merit, it is my opnion.

 

The machine does it for us and it does so badly because it is a silly thing and not know anything.

 

The fault is not with the manufacturers of these obsolete and decadent objects with planned obsolescence, it is our fault, blame the consumer who wants easy things, we want to offer us all done, that's a mistake.

 

If a person wants to do photography and that person likes photography should learn photography, otherwise it happens that we see in social networks much garbage all the same.

 

What would the great teachers and artists in photography if they could see what has become of all this today !!!!

 

In a manual of any camera is written: "Congratulations, you are a great photographer when charging the battery, when taking your camera to the street and when you selecction "P" (panic) and shoot, you should not worry, the camera does all for you. "

 

- YOU ARE ANOTHER BRICK IN A GREAT WALL -

 

 

 

There is a great question you should ask themselves:   "I am an ordinary citizen, .... or I still think  ?? !!.

I still think, machinery has failed to become a "ordinary" citizen.

 

Each person is free to think what they want to do, what you want, but this question hangs over the heads of all of us.

 

But of course I can be wrong ...... I'm just a human being.

 

 

 

 

Greetings.

 

 

Could the cities walls be full of this magnificent words...

[sarav]

..."these" magnificent words...

[EoinC]

...The film is more work, but I think it's worth...

 

I like your work represented on your Flickr pages, Jhon. Some very nice captures of the light, both with Tri-X and on the Monochrom - Thank you

[Brenton C]

After my compact digital stopped working for no apparent reason other than that's just what they do, I read and read about other cameras on DPReview and other cites. I pondered what I took in at a leisurely pace, then noticed that 5mp camera I'd pretty much decided on was surpassed by this and that and the other thing. As I looked closer, the changes were dizzyingly fast, and I came to realize I want it slower. More and more I realized I wanted full manual control, manual focussing. What's more, what's all this business about white balance? What has happened to photography as I knew it when I saved my allowance for that old Petri slr I bought in 1975?

 

Finally it dawned on me to do a google search to find out if film photography even existed any more, and whether it is still viable. That's what led me to this forum and the delightful discovery that I could not only pick up where I left off 20 years ago or so, but I could up the ante. 

 

Maybe I'm already a relic, stuck in the past already at 52. But it seems to me that modern technology typically offers "modern convenience" that implicitly promises and rarely delivers a total improvement over what was less convenient. 

 

In the last 10 years I have similarly discovered the superior performing, though less convenient virtues of fountain pens, straight razors, vinyl records and (brace yourself boys and girls) vacuum tube stereo amplifiers. I know Doc Henry joins me in at least some of these preferences. The implicit promise that the new tech does it all and does it better is... Well, it's an assumption we've been trained to accept uncritically.

 

So, I bought an M3, and I love it. I never got a new digital camera, and hope I never will. 

[gbealnz]

Good On Ya Brenton, each to their own. You're neither right nor wrong, but you are happy.

 

I use both digital, and film, love the good and bad of both. And believe me there is good and bad in both.

 

Shoot some film, and attend the "I like Film" thread, it is galloping along.

Gary

[earleygallery]

"Digital photography is like a microwave ready meal, quick and convenient, and hard to mess up. Film photography is home cooking" - anon.

[wlaidlaw]

Be very careful buying a film Leica, it becomes addictive!

 

I now have a 1© standard, Model II, IIF-RD and M4. I am looking at buying a black model III as well, preferably with a nickel Summar lens, which has not had the front element polished to ground glass appearance. My favourite is the M4, which I have had from new. It had its first major overhaul by Peter at CRR in Luton last year. It now looks and works like new again. 

 

I use Labo Argentique in France for my processing and contact prints, as they do it better than I ever did, are very reasonably priced and offer lots of choice of different developers, push, pull etc. I then scan on my Epson V700, as I found commercial scanning tends to over compress the images after they have scanned, resulting in JPEG artefacts. 

 

Wilson

[the warrior]

 

All because Erwin was a guru in the past doesn't mean every word he says is gospel

 

 

 

 

No my friend, When time passes for each of us make our own Bible, I do not read the Bible from other photographers.

 

Each person is different, different people are different worlds.

 

Each of us should have clear ideas and know which is our path, however the roads are changing over time.

 

The human being is great but in its greatness make many big mistakes, photography can be a good way to correct errors or to make them bigger still ..

 

Within each of us there is a profound discussion is an ongoing discussion about what we should do and what not to do, it is very difficult to hit because our emotions guide us and sometimes astray.

 

I stay in the world of film because it is natural light and light is not invented, but also shot sometimes the Monochrom.

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[Guest]

...Finally it dawned on me to do a google search to find out if film photography even existed any more, and whether it is still viable. That's what led me to this forum and the delightful discovery that I could not only pick up where I left off 20 years ago or so, but I could up the ante. 

 

Maybe I'm already a relic, stuck in the past already at 52. But it seems to me that modern technology typically offers "modern convenience" that implicitly promises and rarely delivers a total improvement over what was less convenient. 

 

In the last 10 years I have similarly discovered the superior performing, though less convenient virtues of fountain pens, straight razors, vinyl records and (brace yourself boys and girls) vacuum tube stereo amplifiers. I know Doc Henry joins me in at least some of these preferences. The implicit promise that the new tech does it all and does it better is... Well, it's an assumption we've been trained to accept uncritically.

 

So, I bought an M3, and I love it. I never got a new digital camera, and hope I never will. 

 

Film is great but this is almost a Luddite screed. As I've written elsewhere, I particularly love film for its treatment of highlights in bright and harsh tropical light, but a choice between digital and film today is not easy because the advantages are not one-sided, as I showed in this thread: 

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155090

Going back to film is a personal decision and must have a strong emotional element because it simply is a lot more work, whether one prints in the darkroom or scans; unfortunately there is no really good solution for scanning right now. It’s interesting, although not necessarily instructive, to look at some well-known photographers when thinking about going back to film:

 

David Alan Harvey, having tried the M9 and MM is clearly happy with the Fuji X100T and X-Pro 2, although I believe that he has recently made some darkroom prints and last year shot some medium format.

 

Ralph Gibson, after saying for years that digital was not real photography, happily switched to the M-Monochrom. He has continued to use the M-Monochrom. From a recent interview, it seems that he has continued with the MM, and also has been shooting color with the M240. If you're interested in his work you may want to read this interview: http://museemagazine.com/art-2/features/ralph-gibson-political-abstraction-at-mary-boone-gallery/

...in which he says that, with film, couldn't have done his latest book, Political Abstraction in a year. Here is an excerpt:

...The point being that I immediately achieved my visual signature through the digital space. It obeyed my visual intention. Now, that all of the sudden rang a lot of bells in my head because it meant that I could work a lot faster...I did this book in a year. I could have never processed the imagery fast enough to achieve that book in that time I did.

 

Jacob Aue Sobol showed that he could use the M-Monochrom to maintain the look he had with film, but after his trip on the Trans-Siberian railway for Leica with the MM, went back to film, presumably using small point-and-shoot cameras in the manner of Moriyama Daido and Anders Peterson.

 

Moriyama Daido has been shooting with digital point-and-shoot cameras for a few years, and likes the fact that he can decide whether a particular photo should be color or B&W. He currently has an exhibition of digital color photographs at the Cartier Foundation in Paris.

 

Paulo Nozolino, in whom I've become interested recently, shoots with an M6 and maintains that "digital is not photography." I like the idea that Nozolino is gutsy enough not even to have a website. 

[colonel]

I have read all the comments to date and it's fair to summarise that some people really like film.

 

Good enough reason to try it out and see if its for you