ECohen Posted November 22, 2015 Share #1 Posted November 22, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm thinking about a wide angle lens for occasional use..... travel, landscape etc. I shoot most everything with a 50 and a 35 and thought the extreme wide angle of the 21 would be useful, also very different from the 35....In the back of my mind I'm working on rounding out a 4 lens 240 kit. 21/35/50/90 I cant justify 2K for a secondhand 21mm Elmarit-M ASPH. So im very seriously considering the Zeiss 21mm f/4.5 ZM it's about 700 bucks used. ....I also don't have a problem with f/4.5. As this form usually asks "What do you shoot"? With this lens mostly outside and for the really occasional time that I'll be using it inside....I'll light it, use a high ISO or tripod. Anybody have experience with this lens on the 240? The reviews look great...but only first hand experience will tell me if its a dog.........bad color, gross distortion or soft? I really appreciate the vast experience of this group....... I'm not very versed in used Leica lenses. All advice welcome.......perhaps you have a better direction Thank You Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 22, 2015 Posted November 22, 2015 Hi ECohen, Take a look here wide angle lens advice..... please. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
adan Posted November 22, 2015 Share #2 Posted November 22, 2015 My understanding is that the ZM 21 f/4.5 has severe color-stain problems around the edges on FF M digitals (9 or 240). The ZM f/2.8, and the Voigtlander f/4, behave somewhat better (so I hear), as does the non-ASPH earlier Leica 21 Elmarit (but it runs around $1500 now). https://themachineplanet.wordpress.com/2014/04/20/zeiss-c-biogon-t-4521-zm-and-removing-the-reds/ Personally, I'm not a hobbyist, and 21 is my main focal length, so I don't have time to be futzing around with each picture like that. They have to be right straight out of the camera. So I use a coded pre-ASPH 21. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted November 22, 2015 Share #3 Posted November 22, 2015 I use 21mm a lot. The 4.5/21 ZM C-Biogon is an extraordinary good lens. Excellent resolution to the edges, minimal distortion, very compact and a delight to use, and cheap. F4.5 is OK for such a wide lens. I mainly used it on the M9 for B&W so the red-edging was not too much of a problem. Repairing files for colour was a chore (although I never used CornerFix) and the reason I finally sold it, and no it isn't quite as good as the 3.4/21 Super-Elmar I had the lens for it for a few years and begrudgingly sold it but it certainly delivered me some of my favourite photographs: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/251884-australian-landscapes-open-thread/?p=2916996 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/251884-australian-landscapes-open-thread/?p=2910427 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/251884-australian-landscapes-open-thread/?p=2910355 I would strongly recommend it if you want to shoot film, B&W on M9 or M240, or the Monochrom. Regards, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted November 22, 2015 Share #4 Posted November 22, 2015 I use the 21mm Elmarit-M ASPH a lot for work. When I first bought the lens second-hand it was a dog. Soft with focus shift and sh1t contrast so I sent it into Leica, and I am sure they sent me back a different lens! Pin sharp, great contrast and colour with low distortion. The only (very minor) issue is that Adobe Camera Raw does not have a profile for it, but that is easy enough to work around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted November 22, 2015 Share #5 Posted November 22, 2015 I'm thinking about a wide angle lens for occasional use..... travel, landscape etc. I cant justify 2K CV 21/4. I had an Elmarit-ASPH, sold it because there was very little appreciable difference between it and the pre-ASPH which I still own. But the CV gets most of the use. It's tiny, light and inexpensive, and like all the CV lenses delivers amazing performance. I had the LTM version until the M version came along, kept the former as a backup. Coded as Elmarit Pre-ASPH there are no issues with either M9 or M240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Pope Posted November 22, 2015 Share #6 Posted November 22, 2015 I have the 21mm f2.8 Zeiss lens. It's a very good lens and I think it's very good value. Here are a couple of examples taken with my M9-P L1003937.jpg by Mark Pope, on Flickr L1004059.jpg by Mark Pope, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted November 22, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) CV 21/4. I had an Elmarit-ASPH, sold it because there was very little appreciable difference between it and the pre-ASPH which I still own. But the CV gets most of the use. It's tiny, light and inexpensive, and like all the CV lenses delivers amazing performance. I had the LTM version until the M version came along, kept the former as a backup. Coded as Elmarit Pre-ASPH there are no issues with either M9 or M240. Voigtlander COLOR SKOPAR 21mm F/4 This is a viable choice for me....In your opinion it's preferable to the Zeiss 21F/4 ? I didn't consider this lens because, I was under the impression that it was designed as a "film lens" and not recommend on the digital 240? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted November 22, 2015 Share #8 Posted November 22, 2015 I use th VC 21 f4 on my M9, and have what I see as a very slight edge color, that isn't noticed on real pictures - only blank wall test photos. Coding it helps a lot, as long as you always shoot with ISO 160, where coding has the most effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted November 22, 2015 Share #9 Posted November 22, 2015 I've used a 21/2.8 Kobalux in LTM mount for a number of years, which is very inexpensive, superbly designed and built lens that, performs excellently - very little distortion, very sharp, and minimal vignetting (and far better even wide open than the 21/4 Color Skopar that I owned before it) so you might like to keep a Kobalux in mind (they were also marketed under the name Avenon in the US and Pasoptic in the UK but are the same lens). Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdk Posted November 23, 2015 Share #10 Posted November 23, 2015 Excellent article on using software tools to combat red edges or other color casts on Leica digitals with the 21mm/4.5 ZM. The Adobe DNG Flat Field Plugin is easy to use and works wonders. (Applicable to any lens and body that produces color casts, so long as you use DNG format and Lightroom) : https://themachineplanet.wordpress.com/2014/04/20/zeiss-c-biogon-t-4521-zm-and-removing-the-reds/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 23, 2015 Share #11 Posted November 23, 2015 Capture One has an exceedingly simple and effective Flat Field correction tool built in. It will get rid of any color vignetting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted November 23, 2015 Share #12 Posted November 23, 2015 ...In the back of my mind I'm working on rounding out a 4 lens 240 kit. 21/35/50/90... This is a great four lens kit - it is what I have. While the 28 Summilux would be very nice to have, the 35 Summicron more than pulls its weight. I will be of no help in choosing a 21mm for your kit, though; I only have eyes for the 21mm Super Elmar f/3.4 and would urge you to bite the bullet and invest in this staggeringly good 21mm lens for life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share #13 Posted November 23, 2015 This is a great four lens kit - it is what I have. While the 28 Summilux would be very nice to have, the 35 Summicron more than pulls its weight. I will be of no help in choosing a 21mm for your kit, though; I only have eyes for the 21mm Super Elmar f/3.4 and would urge you to bite the bullet and invest in this staggeringly good 21mm lens for life. Ha Ha Ha... Your right your no help at all..... like a bad angel .... "spend the money" .......I do know you are right....but its such an occasional use lens...for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted November 23, 2015 Share #14 Posted November 23, 2015 No love for the voigtlander ultron? Sometimes fast and wide is good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rirakuma Posted November 23, 2015 Share #15 Posted November 23, 2015 Ha Ha Ha... Your right your no help at all..... like a bad angel .... "spend the money" .......I do know you are right....but its such an occasional use lens...for me I think the Zeiss 2.8 biogon is an outstanding performer in your price range. If you're looking for a compact technical performer in the future look no further than the 21SEM. There are many more uses for a 21mm than the occasional interior shots when you get comfortable with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted November 23, 2015 Share #16 Posted November 23, 2015 Voigtlander COLOR SKOPAR 21mm F/4 This is a viable choice for me....In your opinion it's preferable to the Zeiss 21F/4 ? I didn't consider this lens because, I was under the impression that it was designed as a "film lens" and not recommend on the digital 240? Guessing that impression comes from internet forum posts by people who have never used that lens on digital. If I only owned one sample I might be willing to attribute my results to luck, but my 2 samples of different age (1 LTM, 1 M-mount) I have never seen any evidence of cast at any ISO on M9 or M240. 21mm is an oft-used travel lens for me, and I could not tolerate it if I had to shoot RAW and then PP to get rid of color casts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share #17 Posted November 23, 2015 Thanks to all, for the very helpful advice. Please know that its appreciated! I'm going with the Voigtlander COLOR SKOPAR 21mm F/4.....It will get me the focal length for next to nothing ....If I love it and use it more than I think..... I'm sure one day I wander in to a Leice store and there will be an 21mm Elmarit-M ASPH with my name on it...to invest in;-) It's good to have this forum for honest opinions. THANK YOU! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutanthands Posted November 25, 2015 Share #18 Posted November 25, 2015 The VC 21mm 1.8 Ultron seems to get rather favourable reviews from what I've read. 2nd hand should be within your price range (if you can find one!) and you have the added benefit of f1.8 incase you fancy a bit of low-light photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share #19 Posted November 26, 2015 Thanks for that reply .......but 15oz VS 5oz ...... in this case and for my use, weight trumps speed.....and then theres the cost, its almost nothing ......I just hope its sharp and no funny colors I would have orded it today but I hate buying thing around this holiday Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiepphotog Posted November 26, 2015 Share #20 Posted November 26, 2015 Personally, I would save for the SEM 21 and when you get it, you know you got the best 21 for the system, an arguably the best 21 of any system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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