jaapv Posted November 20, 2015 Share #181 Posted November 20, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ditching the screen would have meant a different rear bodyshell and M60-like functionality. It would have meant more R&D for smaller customer base, thus a higher price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Leica M (Typ 262) - Reduction to Rangefinder Photography (at 1000 € less). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted November 20, 2015 Share #182 Posted November 20, 2015 Ditching the screen would have meant a different rear bodyshell and M60-like functionality. It would have meant more R&D for smaller customer base, thus a higher price. Not much more R&D. The functionality/firmware side of things has already been done. A revised rear body shell is presumably a bit of CAD work, a not dissimilar task to what they have presumably had to do for the M262 to account for the button removal and introduction of the 'M9' step in the top plate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 20, 2015 Share #183 Posted November 20, 2015 Even if the extra R&D would not have been too bad, it would still have left them with fewer units sold to spread the cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lm_user Posted November 20, 2015 Share #184 Posted November 20, 2015 So far my only doubt about this camera is, how it would look after a while in use. My M-P shows a lot of brass and the black paint comes off quite fast. (Maybe due to the hot temperatures and humidity during summer, here in India). I don't mind, but I wonder if I would, if it would show a lot of aluminium... Otherwise, IMO this camera was a good move. Should wear the same as the black anodized lenses and hioods produced by Leica today - very well in my case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted November 20, 2015 Share #185 Posted November 20, 2015 Is this a modernised M9 rather than a restricted M240? What? Seriously??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 20, 2015 Share #186 Posted November 20, 2015 Even if the extra R&D would not have been too bad, it would still have left them with fewer units sold to spread the cost. Keep digging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lm_user Posted November 20, 2015 Share #187 Posted November 20, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Again, this is just a castrated M240. I wonder why so many Leica users are so positive about castration. Castration in itself is personal preference (you either like video or not). I like the lower price. Cosmetic changes and lower weight are welcome too. If you want to pay extra for video, brass able paint and a larger red dot that is your preference Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou Posted November 20, 2015 Share #188 Posted November 20, 2015 I am happy and unhappy altogether. Happy cause Leica annouced this new model i asked for long ago, without the video features and as a result with less buttons. Happy the new shutter is even more silent. Now two features make me a little less happy. No more live view though live view (and the EVF) can be very invaluable for a photographer. Macro, long focal lenses, " real " view with wide angles, judging a picture during framing for light reflexions, many uses. Last (light) critic the new aluminium top that does not stay as beautiful as brass when used a lot. These two shortcomings are evidently marketing decisions, they wanted to create an entry level M that would leave the flagship unhurt. A better move in my opinion would have consisted of upgrading the M 2xx line altogether with a better EVF as a midlife improvement and propose one model with full option (video) and a " photographer's model " without video but with live view and same quality materials (brass top) That said I will buy anyway the new offer as it will serve 90% of my needs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 20, 2015 Share #189 Posted November 20, 2015 First you ask for this basic model and then you complain that features have been left off? There is no pleasing customers. I feel for Leica.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 20, 2015 Share #190 Posted November 20, 2015 Keep digging. Is this an invitation to make it to Australia for tea my friend, or are you an alias for Craig Trevel Horwood? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcg Posted November 20, 2015 Share #191 Posted November 20, 2015 Is this a modernised M9 rather than a restricted M240? Surely this is not a bad question. Is the 262 basically an upgraded M9 - CMOS, pixels, processor - improvements ... - but what are the list of new features in the 262 which don't occur in the M9? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 20, 2015 Share #192 Posted November 20, 2015 Removing or disabling the video software from the camera would have no advantage and only disadvantages. Why would any reasonable producer of electronic goods go to the length of developing, testing and maintaining a separate version of the software justs in order to remove a few functions from the software which can not even be accessed from the outside? The answer is simple: Leica thinks there is a market for a "new" M, at a lower price. But they are afraid to cannibalize their premium cameras. Recipe: - Get the same hardware as the M240, because it does not make any sense to re-engineer the hardware. - Build a new firmware with some features disabled. Actually, all M2xx cameras could share the very same firmware image, and conditionally disable features based on the product model detected... but I doubt Leica is doing this. - Remove related buttons. - Make people think this is a new camera. Tell them they can finally focus on the essential. Then just wait for people to "upgrade" their camera with an identical camera that does less. Because, you know, I can't focus on the essential with my old M240, and that is the only reason why my photos suck. P.S. Almost forgot... We can finally set the WB with a dedicated button. That will definitely allow us to focus on the essential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou Posted November 20, 2015 Share #193 Posted November 20, 2015 I was waiting for your reaction, you do not disappoint. This is Leica luck to have difficult customers that are never happy unless the best is offered to them. http://cdn.l-camera-forum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 20, 2015 Share #194 Posted November 20, 2015 Cat, What nonsense. The M240 is still on the market until it will be replaced by newer model.This is a successor to the ME, and is designed to appeal to a distinct group of customers. Now you may not belong to that group, but there are many that don't belong to yours. That cannot be an excuse for a senseless bashing session.I would remind you of the following forum rule: Some members, apparently, use the forum exclusively to express the same criticisms again and again, spoiling for others the enjoyment of their hobby.This isn’t a forum for sycophants and fanboys but neither is it a Leica-bashing community. No-one in the Leica forum should ever have to justify their purchase of a Leica product or their enjoyment of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted November 20, 2015 Share #195 Posted November 20, 2015 You are not paying extra for video... why do people keep this misinformation going - it actually doesn't do justice to either camera or Leica. To disable the video and live view is a means of differentiation, which suits a certain type of customer, particularly the traditionalists. The new top plate takes care of the video button blank and the 'step' is an easy enough decision to take to make it a little more like the M9... and M9 customers are an obvious target for so many reasons, not least that the 262 now has much the same functionality and looks, but with the 240 upgrades of screen, 2G buffer (of the M-P), shutter and rangefinder... plus the CMOS sensor... So what's not to like...? Leica have lowered the price and made an attractive camera for some of their more conservative customers... or those who know what they like or need. To say it's a cheaper 240 as it doesn't have video is not only inaccurate in so many ways, it does a disservice to the thought process behind the concept and the decision to release it. I would have thought any 240 or M240P user would be glad of its release, because we no longer have to put up with nonsensical criticism of the elements some customers either don't want or need, and for those M9 (and earlier) customers, for whom the 240 just didn't appeal enough for one reason or another but who want a reliable but simple (much improved) rangefinder with considerable advantages in performance... Jaap is right. There are some here for whom there is just no pleasing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou Posted November 20, 2015 Share #196 Posted November 20, 2015 What nonsense. The M240 is still on the market until it will be replaced by newer model. This is a successor to the ME, and is designed to appeal to a distinct group of customers. Now you may not belong to that group, but there are many that don't belong to yours. That cannot be a reason for a senseless bashing session. Maybe you read me too quickly Jaap. I just wrote above that i intend to actually buy this new camera. Is it forbiden here to ask mid life improvements to the M240 when some features where very weak from the start (evf) ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lm_user Posted November 20, 2015 Share #197 Posted November 20, 2015 The answer is simple: Leica thinks there is a market for a "new" M, at a lower price. But they are afraid to cannibalize their premium cameras. Recipe: - Get the same hardware as the M240, because it does not make any sense to re-engineer the hardware. - Build a new firmware with some features disabled. Actually, all M2xx cameras could share the very same firmware image, and conditionally disable features based on the product model detected... but I doubt Leica is doing this. - Remove related buttons. - Make people think this is a new camera. Tell them they can finally focus on the essential. Then just wait for people to "upgrade" their camera with an identical camera that does less. Because, you know, I can't focus on the essential with my old M240, and that is the only reason why my photos suck. P.S. Almost forgot... We can finally set the WB with a dedicated button. That will definitely allow us to focus on the essential. I see why you are upset. You are looking for a "real" upgrade. Not all of us are in your position. I own an M8, a lovely camera I bought 2nd hand 4 years ago. I am looking forward to a more affordable attractive full frame M with improved ISO, improved /quiet shutter, and improved rangefinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 20, 2015 Share #198 Posted November 20, 2015 Maybe you read me too quickly Jaap. I just wrote above that i intend to actually buy this new camera. Is it forbiden here to ask mid life improvements to the M240 when some features where very weak from the start (evf) ? Read again. Not you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert blu Posted November 20, 2015 Share #199 Posted November 20, 2015 My thinking, the day after...this camera is in my opinion the digital most similar to my M7 and this is for me very interesting because could be used in a similar way. Price difference with the M240 is not so essential, honestly, I think when you pay more than 5K Eur for a camera you can afford even 6K ! but I see this as a logic and good move from the marketing point of view to revitalize digital M sales waiting for the new M (next year probably). I'll visit a Leica shop as soon as this will be available to test it in my hands...maybe this time is the right time robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 20, 2015 Share #200 Posted November 20, 2015 Cat, What nonsense. The M240 is still on the market until it will be replaced by newer model. I would remind you of the following forum rule: [...] You probably missed several of my posts, where I am praising Leica for other products. Peace. I've been waiting for a new camera for my M lenses for quite a bit now, and I am losing my temper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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