Leica M (Typ 262) - Reduction to Rangefinder Photography (at 1000 € less)

[photolandscape]

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A mixed bag to me. Great that Leica finally decided to make the M240 more affordable and strip off the things I have had no use for -- video, etc. But now, after paying $7000 for my M240 2.5 years or so ago, with the M262 available the value of my still very nice, very clean M240 has seriously depreciated. Not good. The M262 is what I would have strongly preferred--both in terms of simplied features and much lower cost--in the first place. Wish they'd introduced the M262 first, and followed with the M240 with extra bells and whistles at this point.

[colint544]

The new M262 looks nigh-on perfect. The M9-style notch always looked more 'right' to me than the built-up corner of the M8 or M240. Nice to see it back. Nothing superfluous, no USB flap to let in moisture, no video or extra buttons.

 

Now, if only they could release this as an M Monochrom edition, with Sappire glass, that really would be perfection. What more, seriously, could anyone want?

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[MT0227]

The whole point about the SL is it is a different tool.  That has been the underlying reason for M camera aficionados angst. Meanwhile, sounds like the SL is selling well ...

 

Agreed, what I'm saying is, there is no real choice here as you stated earlier ( M246 or SL).  What you shoot should have already made this determination for you.  Depending on what you shoot, you will most likely own one or both.  The latter if you sell off all your DLSR gear to fund the cost of the SL or if you have an infinite supply of cash.

[scott kirkpatrick]

I haven't read all 5 pages of this thread, but has it been clarified whether the sensor in the 262 is the same as in the 240 or the same as in the SL?

 

scott

[rfaspen]

Nearly the perfect camera for me.  If this had the EVF slot (and capability) it would fit my needs absolutely perfectly.

 

I wonder if this is achievable via the a la carte program?

 

I like this announcement from Leica a little more than the last one.  No let-down involved.

[IkarusJohn]

Agreed, what I'm saying is, there is no real choice here as you stated earlier ( M246 or SL).  What you shoot should have already made this determination for you.  Depending on what you shoot, you will most likely own one or both.  The latter if you sell off all your DLSR gear to fund the cost of the SL or if you have an infinite supply of cash.

 

I don't have a dSLR. 

 

Where some here were struggling to differentiate the SL from the M. I've always thought they were different concepts. I don't really agree there's  "no real choice". Many M users still use dSLRs, and most photographers use a wider range than the M's native 28-90 range. 

 

The choices are T, M, SL & S - each different, and complementary. 

[Peter H]

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The new M262 looks nigh-on perfect. The M9-style notch always looked more 'right' to me than the built-up corner of the M8 or M240. Nice to see it back. Nothing superfluous, no USB flap to let in moisture, no video or extra buttons.

 

Now, if only they could release this as an M Monochrom edition, with Sappire glass, that really would be perfection. What more, seriously, could anyone want?

 

A great deal, actually, but that's just a matter of personal preferences. 

 

I want the virtues of the current M to be combined with the best that technology can offer, whilst retaining the extremely direct, familiar and intuitive controls that differentiate it from all competition.

 

I do want to own the best body available for M lenses, so that they can be used to the very best of their extraordinary abilities, with as little compromise as is technically reasonable. I see no reason why it shouldn't be at least as advanced as the SL, with the necessary exceptions that come with the MF/RF set up that gives it its identity.

 

If a parallel "traditionalist" model is necessary, that's fine, but I don't want the M's future to be based on the M262.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Peter H

[sanyasi]

I take this as an indication of the following:  The effective price drop reflects the reality that Leica is facing some competition from the likes of the Sony A7rii, other mirrorless cameras, and the recent Canons.  While old time loyalists may not be view these cameras as alternatives, newer buyers do.  

 

It is going to become harder for Leica to hold the premium price in this space as megapixel counts go up.  There is only so far Leica can go up without an image stabilization solution.  Once again, there will be those who say that they don't need more pixels.  That's fine, but newer less loyal buyers will look at the spectrum and perceive Leica as falling behind.  For those that like the Leica lenses, many of these newer cameras permit Leica lenses to be used, and quite effectively.

 

I have become a Leica cynic.  I am deciding whether to replace the sensor in my original Monochrom for the second time in just over a year.  There have been other problems.  This is a company that has been flooding the market with new cameras (which Sony receives a lot of criticism for) without maintaining the quality.  Yesterday, I turned down the new Monochrom from my dealer.  I am happy to pay premium prices, but the camera had better be built like a tank.

[Ai_Print]

But now, after paying $7000 for my M240 2.5 years or so ago, with the M262 available the value of my still very nice, very clean M240 has seriously depreciated. Not good. 

 

Yeah, likely to about half which is pretty much where most computer cameras and computers sit after that amount of time. Not sure why you thought you were immune, this is the way it should work. 

 

Kind of stinks to hear but that is the reality of digital anything. I'll be curious to see where my $10,000 Hasselblad digital back will be in that time frame. Luckily I will have earned some 10-20x times that amount with it by then so....

Edited November 19, 2015 by Ai_Print

[sumolux]

As a traditionalist, the 262 is perfect.

But I understand what Peter H means, expecting more in the future to use Leica glass to the fullest.

 

However, in 2060, I sincerely doubt that Leica glass will be attached to a rangefinder.

People will scratch their heads and say "what's that?"

(Dont' flame me, I love the M all the way....Just saying....)

 

Our beloved Leica glass will be attached to a totally different kind of camera....As Leica are already producing.

They are doing the perfect job of guaranteeing and solidifying their future will all these developments.

[semi-ambivalent]

Digital worthwhile-entry-level M for those who are absolutely not interested in that pristine M2/3/4/6/M7/MP/M-A even if it is cheaper yet.

 

Frees up the M240/Monochrom to be whatever Leica wants them to be as long as it doesn't compete with

 

The SL, which becomes the M designed, not by Hermes, but by Snap-on. For similar treatment in many respects.

 

s-a

[helged]

If the future incarnations of the M means added weight and/or size, key differences to the SL line are lost, and it will be hard to keep the M-line alive. The future of the M, running in parallel to SL, requires low(er) weight and small size. A cost difference will also separate the two platforms.

 

The SL has impressed me a lot, but the M-line is surely useful given a substantial weight/size factor in favour of the M, in addition to an outstanding optical view finder like in the M240 and a lower cost compared to the SL.

 

So the SL and the M262 can be viewed as the start of a revitalised M, with weight, size and an optical view finder in focus for the latter, and with the former being the new professional, all-round image machine.

 

Good news, I will say.

[TomB_tx]

I had no interest in the typ 240, but this one appeals to me. If my M9 breaks I'll go this route.

[AAK]

I'd be curious to know what the relative profitability of the camera (box) and lens divisions are. Selling a relatively inexpensive (by Leica standards) camera will lead to more sales of those gorgeous lenses. 

 

I'm very tempted by the 262. I certainly have no interest in video photography, so not having that is a non-issue for me. As far as I can tell, the image quality of the M262 will be the same as the M-P(240), for $1800 less. The only practical difference is the lack of Live View, and whatever benefits come from the larger buffer size on the M-P. Am I missing something here?

[Peter H]

As a traditionalist, the 262 is perfect.

But I understand what Peter H means, expecting more in the future to use Leica glass to the fullest.

 

However, in 2060, I sincerely doubt that Leica glass will be attached to a rangefinder.

People will scratch their heads and say "what's that?"

(Dont' flame me, I love the M all the way....Just saying....)

 

Our beloved Leica glass will be attached to a totally different kind of camera....As Leica are already producing.

They are doing the perfect job of guaranteeing and solidifying their future will all these developments.

 

I think (hope) this is right. 

 

I think Leica has a huge fight on its hands though. The future of Leica and probably photography in general will not be so much in big DSL cameras, though there'll always be a role for those, but in smaller, M-size mirrorless cameras with sensor technology that produces results that most of the time equal or exceed what current big DSL cameras are capable of. I imagine...

 

I'm worried at the moment, but there are reasons to be optimistic too. The M262 could be, and I hope it is,  a sign that Leica intends to be radical and develop the M line to its fullest extent, but recognises the need to offer something that the more traditionalist customer values too. I hope that the advent of the SL doesn't dilute the technological development of the M in any way, but there are some faint signs that it might well do, and that will be very bad news for me.

 

I keep using the word hope, but that's a sign of my uncertainty, and if I feel it others will too, and I don't think that's very healthy when spend involved in building a Leica outfit is so great. The lower price of the M262 and falling prices of Ms reflects all this, of course.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Peter H

[AAK]

 

I'm worried at the moment, but there are reasons to be optimistic too. The M262 could be, and I hope it is,  a sign that Leica intends to be radical and develop the M line to its fullest extent, but recognises the need to offer something that the more traditionalist customer values too. I hope that the advent of the SL doesn't dilute the technological development of the M in any way, but there are some faint signs that it might well do, and that will be very bad news for me.

 

 

 

In my mind, the price similarity between the M240 and the SL is so close that something seems wrong. Either the SL is underpriced or the M240 is overpriced. In the competitive (and declining) market for new camera sales, I wouldn't bet on the first of those options. Maybe the M262 is part of a price realignment for the digital Ms that will place them at a clearly different price point than the SL line, and recognize the stiff competition from mirrorless alternatives that exist today.

Edited November 19, 2015 by AAK

[Etruscello]

Is the size and structure of the M262 comparable to the M9? Specifically, would a Luigi M9 case fit the M262? Thanks for any information. Tom

[Leicaiste]

One of the bonus of the M 240 EVF is the possibility to continue to focus accurately, even if the rangefinder is out of alignment. 

 

When traveling or when I really need my camera it gives me some peace of mind.

[FrozenInTime]

Is the size and structure of the M262 comparable to the M9? Specifically, would a Luigi M9 case fit the M262? Thanks for any information. Tom

 

It's the same size as the M.240 

 

Lets hope the Photokina update bring a thinner body style.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Leicaiste]

In my mind, the price similarity between the M240 and the SL is so close that something seems wrong. Either the SL is underpriced or the M240 is overpriced. In the competitive (and declining) market for new camera sales, I wouldn't bet on the first of those options. Maybe the M262 is part of a price realignment for the digital Ms that will place them at a clearly different price point than the SL line, and recognize the stiff competition from mirrorless alternatives that exist today.

 

The mechanical rangefinder explain the high price of the M.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Leicaiste