21mm question

[MarkP]

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That's a good reason 

 

Nice photo BTW.

[keithlaban.co.uk]

That's a good reason 

 

Nice photo BTW.

 

Thanks.

 

The M240 and Super Elmar are a third of the heft and girth of the Hasselblad H and 28mm lens that I previously lugged around for this work.

 

Deep joy.

[Xavier]

I am following this thread with great interest, as I am considering more and more seriously to get a used M9 (I currently only have a Canon DSLR) for the sake of getting a compact system. I have read the review cited above (of the 4 21mm lenses). The 21 SEM seems very compelling although I would never be able to get it immediately. Are there thorough reviews of it that I should read ?

[CheshireCat]

I am following this thread with great interest, as I am considering more and more seriously to get a used M9 (I currently only have a Canon DSLR) for the sake of getting a compact system. I have read the review cited above (of the 4 21mm lenses). The 21 SEM seems very compelling although I would never be able to get it immediately. Are there thorough reviews of it that I should read ?

 

No need for thorough reviews: the 21 SEM is just great.

The only problems I have with this lens:

- You need an external viewfinder on the M9 for framing, and even so, framing will never be as precise as with an EVF.

- The compact design causes this lens not to work well adapted to Sony A7. Don't know about the new Leica SL, but I doubt it will have the same performance as on an M body.

 

Alternatively, you may also consider an A7 camera with Zeiss Loxia 21/2.8, which is compact enough for most people and overall way less expensive. On paper, the Loxia seems to be as good as the SEM21. I am waiting for some comparative tests.

[lucerne]

I am following this thread with great interest, as I am considering more and more seriously to get a used M9 (I currently only have a Canon DSLR) for the sake of getting a compact system. I have read the review cited above (of the 4 21mm lenses). The 21 SEM seems very compelling although I would never be able to get it immediately. Are there thorough reviews of it that I should read ?

 

Xavier.

your decision to have an M9 is a good one, so don't fall into a trap of choosing a non Leica body to go with the 21SEM.  Put Leica lens with the Leica body.  Having spent nearly three years with this body and lens, I can say that it is my most used combination and has been around the world with me and has produced my most liked images because they can be creative and full of visual impact.  The other factor is that the Leica M9 has a CCD sensor and many of us are conscious that our images do have a certain look that the more up to date CMOS sensors don't produce.  (I've recently added a Leica Q but I don't see the same effect on images out of my new camera.). That look is enhanced by the superb clarity, edge-to-edge sharpness and colour rendition of the lens. 

 

The responses you've received on this forum are all positive about the SEM.  Get the M9 and plan / save to get the 21SEM as soon as you can.  Don't buy a less expensive alternative because you won't be satisfied until you get what you really know you want and then you will probably have to lose money on your original purchase.  

 

The M9 and 21SEM are a wonderful combination and being small it has completely changed my photography.  No more DSLR.  Forget the reviews.  Look at images on the Barnack Monthly Challenge on this forum.  We often include the lens model with the images we post.

 

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating" but we photographers often need huge amounts of background reading to support our decisions.   You'll find many reviews if you Google. " Leica 21 Super Elmar " or  Leica 21SEM .

 

good luck.

 

At the Taj Mahal.

21SEM RAW image post-adjusted in Lightroom v 4

 

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[ibramr]

Greetings.  There is already excellent advice in the thread for me to add more.  However, for the benefit of discussion, and based on my recent experience, I would like to confirm the following:

1. the Elmarit 21mm pre ASPH is a capable and reasonably priced lens but its E60 size, and its mild/soft rendition are detractions-- I sold it;
2. the Zeiss Biogon 21/2.8 is an excellent lens, with wonderful contrast (superb for monochrome), easy to code on M9, reasonably priced, and has sensible weight and dimensions.  This is my current lens; 
3. although some do not need it, a dedicated view finder is strongly recommended.  Its cost should be factored if you want to acquire this focal length addition--I use a leica viewfinder;
4. I heard of excellent account of the Elmarit 21 ASPH, and really amazing description of the Super Elmar's performance.  I am confident that you would be happy with either of them;
5. despite of my frequent use the 21mm, its share of total shots taken does not exceed 10%.  Perhaps you should factor this relatively limited use in allocating your resources; and
6. I have no experience with Voigtlander, and because of my limitation as a photographer I attach a relatively low value to f1.8 for the 21mm focal length.  If I grow to like such aperture for this focal length, then maybe I should consider buying M240 as a more practical solution. 

I hope the above is of help.  Enjoy in good health.  Brgrds.  

[bocaburger]

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I have had the original 21/3.4 S/A (sold because of meter-cell blockage) and 21/2.8 ASPH (sold because it wasn't delivering significant improvement over the pre-ASPH).  Currently own the pre-ASPH (used infrequently because of lens and filter size) and CV 21/4.  The latter (I have LTM and M versions) is my go-to for travel.  Sharp, no issues (coded as pre-ASPH on M9 and M240), light, and takes 39mm filter like my other travel lenses.  I haven't found the speed a problem compared to an f/2.8, the size issue outweighs having to brace myself against something now and then to compensate for slower shutter speed. 

[sml_photo]

1. although some do not need it, a dedicated view finder is strongly recommended.  Its cost should be factored if you want to acquire this focal length addition--I use a leica viewfinder;

A Brightline 21mm viewfinder, I'm assuming...?

[Herr Barnack]

I have both 21/3.4s (SE and SA). The SE is a phenomenally good lens and is probably the best 20/21mm lens that I've ever owned (and I've owned quite a few over the years). If its affordable then I would strongly recommend that you get one and forget all the others. FWIW I still own and use the 21SA too because it has such a unique signature; still very sharp centrally but with poorer corners and substantial vignetting - very much a lens of its time (as is the SE today).

I have the Leica Super-Elmar-M 21mm f/3.4 ASPH and I cannot imagine ever wanting or needing any other 21mm lens.  Distortion is pretty much nonexistent and it is insanely sharp.  It has excellent contrast, and has an outstanding color rendition; it is small, light and affordable (by Leica M standards, that is). 

[sml_photo]

I have the Leica Super-Elmar-M 21mm f/3.4 ASPH and I cannot imagine ever wanting or needing any other 21mm lens.  Distortion is pretty much nonexistent and it is insanely sharp.  It has excellent contrast, and has an outstanding color rendition; it is small, light and affordable (by Leica M standards, that is). 

Impressive and convincing endorsement, Carlos! 

[colonel]

It does seem that a combination of the 21mm SE and the Voigtlander 21mm would be ideal.

 

It seems that the SE is the ideal lens to use whenever one can, particularly outdoors.

 

I also like to do wide angle interiors and having f1.8 would be useful.

 

I guess I will be scanning classifieds for a bit

[rirakuma]

Hi colonel, I sent you a pm a few days ago

[Xavier]

Thanks a lot to all for the excellent information posted in this thread. Thanks CheshireCat and lucerne for the points you made on my specific question, this is helpful! I usually think decisions such as getting into the M system for some time before doing it (I need to spare money now!), but I can safely say this thread helped.

[Herr Barnack]

 

It does seem that a combination of the 21mm SE and the Voigtlander 21mm would be ideal...

As Colonel observes, f/1.8 in a 21mm lens would be useful; I have wondered about the Voigtlander 21/1.8 as a back up to my Super Elmar.  I wonder about image quality but have so far not been willing to commit $1049 USD to find out. 

 

I have read that the Voigtlander 35/1.2 Nokton ASPH is an excellent lens in terms of image quality.  Given their reasonable prices, I am left wondering how close these lenses come to to the Leica threshold of image quality.  No $1000 lens can equal the performance of a lens costing four to five times as much, but how close do they come?

[colonel]

I have read that the Voigtlander 35/1.2 Nokton ASPH is an excellent lens in terms of image quality.  Given their reasonable prices, I am left wondering how close these lenses come to to the Leica threshold of image quality.  No $1000 lens can equal the performance of a lens costing four to five times as much, but how close do they come?

 

I have used the 35mm f1.2 ii Voigtlander, the 35mm FLE Leica, the 35mm Summicon Leica and the 35mm f1.4 ZM Zeiss.

 

Firstly they are all excellent lenses.

IMHO the one I rate the lowest is the summicron for a number of reasons, amongst them the slight focus shift, wavy MTA, long focus throw and least interesting colours. However the picture quality, handling and size are excellent. My previous comments are more at the fringes.

 

The summilux is the best weight/size/shape and handling of all the 1.4/1.2 lenses. It is very sharp in the centre throughout the range and has a precise blueith/neutral draw which is very ethereal. It does have wavy MTA effecting particularly the corners and a smidgen of focus shift. Its my favorite 35mm for people and street and the most subtle of 35mm f1.4 lenses for any system.

 

The Voigtlander is really superb. Its softish f1.2-f1.4 but very sharp in the centre from f2. There is a large amount of field curvature which effects the edge sharpness until around f9. The draw is very unique. It is contrasty but not as much as the Zeiss or the Summilux but has a beautiful warm rendering and the best bokeh of the bunch for my taste. It is the heaviest of all M 35mm lenses and noticeably so on any M body (although of course light compared to DSLR lenses). IMHO as a good value proposition to cover the entire 35mm range for a shooter it can make a lot of sense. I have bags of respect for this lens.

 

The Zeiss 35mm f1.4 ZM is quite remarkable. Its sharp from f1.4 (with a tiny bit of chromatic glow) and from f2 its flat field sharp. The colours are neutral with the hint of the Zeiss warmth. It has another trick up its sleeve, amazing contrast and micro-contrast from f1.4 !!! In terms of weight its approx half way between the Voigtlander and the Leica, but it is the longest (the Leica is the fattest). Its also got good bokeh, but a little bit nervous.

 

In terms of what I shoot today. I had the summilux for a bit but sold it without loosing virtually any money and bought the Voigtlander which I also had for sometime. However when the Zeiss came out I waiting for my favourtie german dealer to stock it, and he's a bit cheaper on Zeiss then London, and then I bought it and sold the voigtlander for a slight profit

 

You can't go wrong with any of these lenses but the Zeiss is my current fave of any 35mm ever made, except perhaps the Sigma Art 35mm f1.4 which unfortunately you would need a DSLR brick to run it on ....

[ozkanakman]

I currently use the Zeiss 21 2.8 on an ME body coded as elmarit m 21 2.8 and have no issues. Highly recommended lens.

[mirekti]

According to Hen Bockwell "This Voigtländer 21mm f/1.8 is almost as sharp as, and has less distortion than theLEICA SUPER-ELMAR-M 21mm f/3.4 ASPH."

 

[Herr Barnack]

According to Hen Bockwell "This Voigtländer 21mm f/1.8 is almost as sharp as, and has less distortion than theLEICA SUPER-ELMAR-M 21mm f/3.4 ASPH."

 

 

...But how much faith can you really put in a lens evaluation made by a typing chicken?

[sml_photo]

According to Hen Bockwell "This Voigtländer 21mm f/1.8 is almost as sharp as, and has less distortion than theLEICA SUPER-ELMAR-M 21mm f/3.4 ASPH."

 

 

 

He also says this:

"On the LEICA M240 you'll have no way to invoke a lens correction profile unless you color black and white dots for "6-bit code" into the recess of the lens mount. Honestly, if you can afford a depreciating asset like a LEICA M240, you should be smart enough not to buy cheap lenses like this in the first place."

 

And this:

"The more you know about photography, the more you know that lens sharpness doesn't matter. Sharp lenses aren't related to making sharp photos."

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[sblitz]

So is the Voigtlander a good undervalued lens to own or not?