The Designers

[MarkP]

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The way all three of the 135 APO's I've owned focus, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

Gordon

 

Well mine was spot on.

[jaapv]

Mine too - after a trip to Solms...

[farnz]

... The "Big Boss" would make statements like "Just formulate the metal for the barrel to have the same coefficient of expansion as the glass". ...

As an optical fibre engineer this made me giggle a little; it's like saying: "Just rearrange the laws of physics, it shouldn't be too difficult."  Ceramics and metals behave a little differently.

 

Pete.

[farnz]

Bone Crusher

I thought it was Jack Daniels.

 

Pete.

[fiftyonepointsix]

As an optical fibre engineer this made me giggle a little; it's like saying: "Just rearrange the laws of physics, it shouldn't be too difficult."  Ceramics and metals behave a little differently.

 

Pete.

I was told they used Inconel, and the metal in the barrel and optics were designed to hold focus over temperature. They also made the entire optical table for the setup out of Inconel. When the system was being decommissioned we salvaged the metal tables. Bernie said "they were expensive"...He also told me the optics were made using a tangential function, which was also more difficult to do. He designed the lens and then they had to determine of anyone could actually build it.

[jdlaing]

I thought it was Jack Daniels.

 

Pete.

When I drank I never touched that swill.

[uhoh7]

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When I drank I never touched that swill.

Not bitter enough?

 

[IkarusJohn]

Love this

 

here is an updated list of unattributed Modern Leica lenses:

135/3.4 APO

18, 21, 24 SEM

21/1.4

24/2.8 asph

24/1.4

28/1.4

90/2 asph APO

Summarit 35/50/75/90

 

Easy enough to work out who was in charge:

 

First manager of the Rechenbüro was Max Zühlcke

1935 to 1949 Otto Zimmerman (under supervision of Max Berek)

1949 to ? Helmut Marx

1954 to 2005 Walter Mandler in Canada

1981 to ? Wolfgang Vollrath

1990 to 1999  Lothar Kölsch

1999 to 2002 Horst Schröder

2002 to present Peter Karbe

 

Safe to assume that all lenses designed by Leica since 2002 (all the above, save those listed below) have been done under the supervision of Peter Karbe.

 

Of the others:

 

APO-Telyt-M 135/3.4 was designed under the supervision of Lothar Kölsch

There's no 24 SEM  The Elmar-M 24/3.8 ASPH was a Peter Karbe design

Elmarit-M 24/2.8 ASPH was designed under Lothar Kölsch

APO-Summicron-M 90/2 ASPH under supervision of Lothar Kölsch

 

There were 4 50 Elmars:

 

Anastigmat/Elmax/Elmar 50/3.5 made from 1920 to 1921

Elmar 50/3.5 from 1930 to 1962

Elmar 50/2.8 (I) from 1857 to 1972

Elmar-M 50/2.8 (II) from 1994 to 2007, which would have meant it was made in Lothar Kölsch's era

 

Source, Erwin Puts.  It is interesting to note that each had a particular impact on Leica.  Helmut Marx designed the first Noctilux, Walter Mandler the second, along with the 75 Summilux, and Lothar Kölsch the 28 Summicron.

 

Who the actual designer was for each, I think Erwin might be the only one who can shed light on that.  He does refer in his book to various lenses being designed by talented young designers, without actually sharing who they were.  Peter Karbe would know, as he has all the old records.  Why not ask him?

 

Cheers

John

[jdlaing]

Not bitter enough?

 

Too new too cheap and sour mash ain't my thing. If it's any of your business.

[kiemchacsu]

Who the actual designer was for each, I think Erwin might be the only one who can shed light on that.  He does refer in his book to various lenses being designed by talented young designers, without actually sharing who they were.  Peter Karbe would know, as he has all the old records.  Why not ask him?

 

Cheers

John

 

Dear John,

 

By any chance you know about the designer of the 35/2.8 Summaron?

I am curious while it has the same outfit with the 35/2 I which designed by Dr. Mandler, there is quite little information about this gem. 

Another question is why Leica stopped making the 35mm F/2.8 lines for so long until recently they issue the Summarit F2.4/2.5.

After making switch from 35/2 IV to this Summaron, more and more I like it and would love to know about its history.

Thanks. 

Trung

[IkarusJohn]

Dear John,

 

By any chance you know about the designer of the 35/2.8 Summaron?

I am curious while it has the same outfit with the 35/2 I which designed by Dr. Mandler, there is quite little information about this gem. 

Another question is why Leica stopped making the 35mm F/2.8 lines for so long until recently they issue the Summarit F2.4/2.5.

After making switch from 35/2 IV to this Summaron, more and more I like it and would love to know about its history.

Thanks. 

Trung

 

Hi Trung,

 

Not sure who the designer was - it could have been Dr Mandler. It was produced between 1958 and 1974 in both Germany and Canada. With 2.8 aperture, it should really have been an Elmarit. Here's what Erwin Puts has to say (in part):

 

 

The general performance is excellent and especially wide open better than the predecessor. Best aperture is 5.6 where truly fine image quality is guaranteed. This lens was overshadowed by the new Summicron 2/35mm, introduced in the same year. Still the Summaron is a very pleasant lens to use, especially with digital M-cameras because of the compact design and fine performance. Some 52.000 units have been allocated, indicating its good reception in the market. In those days, the price of a lens was a major factor in buying decisions and for many Leica users  an aperture of 1:2.8 was sufficient or at least the only one affordable. 

 

The Summarit line was introduced in 2007 as a more affordable line, without aspherical surfaces. They are also well written up, though I haven't tried them. 

[kiemchacsu]

The reason why I asked because this 35/2.8 is not listed in Dr. Mandler designs in this link http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Walter_Mandler

Anyway, I read somewhere that Leica stopped making the Summaron because they did not want it to compete directly with the more expensive (and probably more profit) 35/2 Summicron. 

[uhoh7]

TY for the post, John.

 

I think there is a grey area between "supervision" and "design".

 

Michael Heiden would be an example, in the design of the 28 Cron. Why is he listed as designer, if "under the supervision" of Karbe or his predecessor?

[IkarusJohn]

No idea. I wasn't able to find any specific information about individual designers, or the reasons for discontinuance f the Summaron. It's easy to say price - I believe Leica is on a continuos drive to improve its lenses, including providing less expensive options (Summarit range). 

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello John,

 

As per why the 35mm F2.8 Summaron is not called a 35mm F2.8 Elmarit (Your Post #31 above), I have a thought:

The first in the Series of 35mm lenses for screw mount Leicas is the F4.5 Elmar. It is a traditional Elmar (Tessar) designs: 4 elements in 3 components.

 

The second 35mm lens is the F3.5 Elmar. It has the same traditional 4 element design in 3 components that the F4.5 Elmar has.

 

The third 35mm lens version is also a F3.5 lens but it is a 6 element, 4 component Double Gauss design. I think the name was changed from Elmar to Summaron when they began producing the Double Gauss version in order to reflect this optical difference. 

 

Double Gauss lenses tend to be more evenly corrected over the entire image field while Tessars tend to be at their best in the central 1/3'd or so of their image field. This better correction further out in the image field can be advantageous when designing medium angle & moderate wide angle lenses.

 

When the lens was upgraded to a F2.8 version the same name: Summaron, was most likely continued because it is also a 6 element, 4 component Double Gauss design.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

 

1 reason Leitz might have stopped making the 35mm F2.8 Summaron is that Leitz was already producing a 35mm F1.4 & a 35mm F2 and might have felt that the 35mmF2.8 had so much overlap in usability with the 35mm F2 that to continue to produce both lenses would put Leitz in competition with itself.

 

This is also most likely the reason Leica stopped producing the last 90mm Elmarit-M: There is so much overlap in usability with the current 90mm Summicron that Leica might have felt that if they continued to produce both lenses they would be in competition with themselves

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael 

[james.liam]

Hello Everybody,

 

1 reason Leitz might have stopped making the 35mm F2.8 Summaron is that Leitz was already producing a 35mm F1.4 & a 35mm F2 and might have felt that the 35mmF2.8 had so much overlap in usability with the 35mm F2 that to continue to produce both lenses would put Leitz in competition with itself.

 

 

I think the more likely scenario was that the greater appeal of an ƒ/2 lens and relatively slow film alternatives of the time coincided with an improved world economy by the late 1960's, more able to afford the newer v.2 Summicron. This diminished the appeal of a slower, less costly optic. 

 

The resurgent interest in smaller, high-performing slower lenses these days comes at a time of ubiquity of outstanding high-ISO sensors. Looking beyond the extraordinary SEM's, Nikon and (especially) Canon have introduced a series of slower, smaller and stellar lenses.