tom0511 Posted May 30, 2016 Share #81 Posted May 30, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I also own both and when looking at the images I dont see how an SL could replace a S system. The SL is fast and flexible, but for me the S IQ is in another class. sharpness, color, tonal transition, sharpness transition. The SL IQ is very good, the S IQ is special...in my eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 Hi tom0511, Take a look here Leica S Lens AF issue. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jibanes Posted May 30, 2016 Share #82 Posted May 30, 2016 Other than differences in ergonomics, price and size; and fact that the S-class has significant hardware quality defects (AF) and the lack of communication from Leica about this; could you please tom0511 post a few pictures taken with the SL and S bodies that would outline the image IQ difference? Many of us are wondering if reliability prevails over IQ here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 31, 2016 Share #83 Posted May 31, 2016 One really needs to look at prints to understand the differences. But, as always, differences often come down to user techniques, and to other variables in the total workflow from camera (and lens) to print, including print size (not to mention the specific image characteristics). I shot with the S006 and 30-90 zoom for a week , and more recently had an opportunity to shoot briefly with the SL and the 24-90 zoom. I didn't run controlled tests, but did gain impressions. The SL was much easier to handhold, given lens IS, AF and other focus aids, greater lens speed, higher camera ISO, etc. Files were 'sharp' to start (forgetting about other image characteristics). The 006, other than in bright daylight conditions, often required tripod use to maximize sharpness and file quality out of camera, assuming all other factors were equal. But under ideal conditions and proper technique, the S files could, depending on the image, provide discernible benefits in color, tonal transition and file malleability. For me, the S007 would provide practical advantages that would likely provide more shooting flexibility and file optimization/consistency. So, too, would the use of primes instead of the zoom. But that would require a substantially greater investment than acquiring the 006 and zoom, given current bargains. Each person needs to make his/her own assessment....and make his/her own prints. The cameras are different in many ways, and IQ (which has many aspects) is still but one issue, the results of which are not plug and play. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted May 31, 2016 Share #84 Posted May 31, 2016 Hi Jeff, appreciated your viewpoint. However, the S006 has converted me after testing an H5D-50c and an ALPA/CFV-50c with Rodenstock lens. The S lens I have (100 f2, and I hope the others are as good) is better than even the Rodenstock. I hope I don't have any issues with mine, but the S experience is totally worth it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chipcarterdc Posted May 31, 2016 Share #85 Posted May 31, 2016 I'll just go on record again to note that I've had not a single problem with the 006, 007, or any of the lenses (30-90, 70, 100, 180). I don't doubt any of the problems reported here, and I think Leica should do something aggressive about it (and who knows, in future, I might end up with similar problems). I just don't want it to appear that every single owner has had the kind of problems reported here. I haven't (yet). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibanes Posted May 31, 2016 Share #86 Posted May 31, 2016 Well again leica didn't even bother to communicate what subset is affected, it could be lenses made prior to a certain date, or after, or with a seial number between ... Hopefully someone from leica will step up considering they're losing orders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 31, 2016 Share #87 Posted May 31, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Jeff, appreciated your viewpoint. However, the S006 has converted me after testing an H5D-50c and an ALPA/CFV-50c with Rodenstock lens. The S lens I have (100 f2, and I hope the others are as good) is better than even the Rodenstock. I hope I don't have any issues with mine, but the S experience is totally worth it. I don't see how my post in any way contradicts your experience. Relating to the S, however, I'm still waiting for your reply regarding your comment about 'crap' from CMOS, which the S007 has... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/260231-amazing-price-on-the-leica-s-e/?p=3052399 Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicapages Posted June 2, 2016 Share #88 Posted June 2, 2016 Pascal, Just to be clear, was this also an AF failure which is essentially what this thread is about? Although I am very grateful for having the lens repaired for free, for most people I get the feeling that this gets lost in the 2-3 months wait time and, in the case of the US, the rather non-existing communication skills of the people in New Jersey. Thanks, Joris. Joris, no it was not just about fixing the AF. In fact, it was an overall check-up of the lenses and the camera, and the lenses worked fine before. The AF mechanism was proactively fixed. The camera received major maintenance work, including swapping the sensor. All this in less than one week. Meanwhile I got a replacement S camera system. I'd call that great service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sortvitt Posted June 2, 2016 Share #89 Posted June 2, 2016 Joris, no it was not just about fixing the AF. In fact, it was an overall check-up of the lenses and the camera, and the lenses worked fine before. The AF mechanism was proactively fixed. The camera received major maintenance work, including swapping the sensor. All this in less than one week. Meanwhile I got a replacement S camera system. I'd call that great service. That is indeed top service. Is this part of the extended Leica Protection Plan? I've never been offered a replacement while waiting for repair, but policy may vary from country to country. On the proactive fix: did they actually replace any parts? I sent my S100 for a proactive check in December, it came back without any changes since it apparently was fine (AF broke less than a hundred clicks later). It would be very interesting to understand if they now have a fix in place and what it entails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicapages Posted June 3, 2016 Share #90 Posted June 3, 2016 That is indeed top service. Is this part of the extended Leica Protection Plan? I've never been offered a replacement while waiting for repair, but policy may vary from country to country. On the proactive fix: did they actually replace any parts? I sent my S100 for a proactive check in December, it came back without any changes since it apparently was fine (AF broke less than a hundred clicks later). It would be very interesting to understand if they now have a fix in place and what it entails. Yes, the documentation that came with the lenses noted that a part had been exchanged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted June 3, 2016 Share #91 Posted June 3, 2016 They sent me back the part they replaced... I think it is the AF motor but not sure.... The following details were on a piece of paper: Auftrag: 849856 SN: 4145328 Motor Einbau: 27.03.2012 Herkunft: USA Motor Nr: 213 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted June 3, 2016 Share #92 Posted June 3, 2016 I also own both and when looking at the images I dont see how an SL could replace a S system. The SL is fast and flexible, but for me the S IQ is in another class. sharpness, color, tonal transition, sharpness transition. The SL IQ is very good, the S IQ is special...in my eyes. Tom, I absolutely have no complaints about the color and the sharpness of the Leica SL. I would be very interested to see any pictures that highlight that. Besides that there are some aspects of the S I like better but it is all very subtle like the transitions you mention... And the differences might even be smaller if you shoot S glass on the SL with the new adapter... The Leica SL is still a very incomplete system at this stage but as more lenses become available I probably would have no issue whatsoever switching over entirely... To me it is clear that the Leica SL is the future of Leica. But who knows, perhaps Leica has something up their sleeve for the next S that makes it gain more momentum again. Best, Joris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan.y Posted June 4, 2016 Share #93 Posted June 4, 2016 An S sized sensor in an SL body, with smaller lenses to match eventually, would be great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuc Posted June 4, 2016 Share #94 Posted June 4, 2016 :: tom0511 How can be color tonality, (per pixel) sharpness, tonal transition, sharpness transition of the S "be another class", if the sensor is basically the same (if compared both CMOS versions), just the S sensor is bigger and has more pixels? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddhaarta Posted June 5, 2016 Share #95 Posted June 5, 2016 The pixel-pitch is the same. Now, with the S-SL Adapter available soon, it would be interesting to compare 2 images from SL and S007, taken with the same lens. I suppose, the SL image will be nearly the same as the cropped S image. Its all about the lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmay Posted June 5, 2016 Share #96 Posted June 5, 2016 :: tom0511 How can be color tonality, (per pixel) sharpness, tonal transition, sharpness transition of the S "be another class", if the sensor is basically the same (if compared both CMOS versions), just the S sensor is bigger and has more pixels? That is the main point. The sensor is bigger, which makes it another class. The quantity of pixels is not as influential as sensor size if one is making a decision based on image quality alone. As an analogy, my large format view camera is a different class than my medium format film camera, which is a different class than a 35mm camera. If I use the same film in all (sensor basically the same), the image quality of the large format camera is always better. This assumes that the lens in use is not horrible. In digital, there are multiple influences in the signal chain from sensor to file creation. None of these cameras have horrible signal processing nor horrible lenses, therefore a sensor that is 50% larger will produce better image quality. There are other factors that may make the choice of a camera with a smaller sensor more desirable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted June 5, 2016 Share #97 Posted June 5, 2016 I can not prove with d Tom, I absolutely have no complaints about the color and the sharpness of the Leica SL. I would be very interested to see any pictures that highlight that. Besides that there are some aspects of the S I like better but it is all very subtle like the transitions you mention... And the differences might even be smaller if you shoot S glass on the SL with the new adapter... The Leica SL is still a very incomplete system at this stage but as more lenses become available I probably would have no issue whatsoever switching over entirely... To me it is clear that the Leica SL is the future of Leica. But who knows, perhaps Leica has something up their sleeve for the next S that makes it gain more momentum again. Best, Joris. Hi Joris, I can not prove with direct comparisons. I even found in a direct comparisons that colors are pretty close. But what I see in the real world images is that S images stand out and that S images are the ones where I have to do the least post processing. Just my impression. I am not saying that I see any problems with sharpness and color of the SL images. How much comes from the lenses, how much from the sensor? I dont know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted June 5, 2016 Share #98 Posted June 5, 2016 :: tom0511 How can be color tonality, (per pixel) sharpness, tonal transition, sharpness transition of the S "be another class", if the sensor is basically the same (if compared both CMOS versions), just the S sensor is bigger and has more pixels? I have not compare both cameras with the same lenses. I also dont know if the sensor of the SL is just a cropped S sensor, do you? And if it is I dont know if the in camera processing and profiles are the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodParticle/Hari Posted September 1, 2016 Share #99 Posted September 1, 2016 Leica are aware of the motor issue and starting October they say the problem will be fixed. The new gears will not break so easily apparently. I did not ask for more details as I don't own an S system yet but this may be useful info for those who do. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted September 1, 2016 Share #100 Posted September 1, 2016 Not for those of us who have 'lost' most used lenses for a while already :-( john Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.