NEW M.. This year.. This Fall...

[robert blu]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

RF + film = the M. Than the digital M. Than the X serie. Than the T. Now the Q. Before the end of the year a new system...

Am I the only one to be confused?

I'm ready to put money on a system, as I did in the past with Nikon and with the film M, camera and lenses. Slowly I find myself shooting less film and more digital. Therefore the need to upgrade from my Leica X1 (the only digital I own) to a better system, more versatile.

Can a relative small company like Leica develop and support all these series? Will the new camera have some "interchangeable" asset with older system? Maybe using the T mount and making it possible to use the same lenses on a T body and/or the new body? This would be interesting in order to better plan where to ut our money. What I would not like is to put money in a system with no future...on the other side at my age I cannot wait too long for the definitive camera 

 

Just free wheel thinking, anyway interesting to see Leica being active.

 

robert

[gbpost]

Lots of stuff gets patented but is never actually implemented. When somebody has unearthed some patent application and promptly speculates that that’s what the next model by that vendor will be like, chances are they are wrong. They are in like 99 percent of those cases.

I totally agree that not every patent leads to a product. But when you perform a patent search on "Leica Camera AG" at a patent database e.g. at the German Patent Office DPMA then you will find only a surprisingly low number of patents or patent applications for Leica from the last years.  Most but not all of them are directly related to products I know. So I see a probabilty higher than 1% that the opto-electronic rangefinder will find its way into a product.

[mmradman]

I totally agree that not every patent leads to a product. But when you perform a patent search on "Leica Camera AG" at a patent database e.g. at the German Patent Office DPMA then you will find only a surprisingly low number of patents or patent applications for Leica from the last years.  Most but not all of them are directly related to products I know. So I see a probabilty higher than 1% that the opto-electronic rangefinder will find its way into a product.

Sounds logical, for a small company like Leica resources are limited and instead of fundamental R&D patents are likely to relate to actual production development.

[AndreasAM]

Andreas, I perfectly agree with your understanding of the patent. The system described in the patent might be used for M lenses without an adaptor. The opto-mechanical system would be simply replaced by an opto-electronic one.

 

However, I suppose that the rumored new AF camera might not have an M mount, thereby requiring an adaptor to use M lenses, in addition to a new line of AF lenses. By the way, isn´t the T mount basically full frame compatible? (Of course, the current T lenses are not...)

 

 

On the forum are several statements that the measurements of the T-mount would be sufficient for a FF-lens. So the development of a new camera and the evolution of the RF to an opto-electronic one could be totally independent in time. So there could even be an camera with T-mount and EVF and/or RF-opto-electronic and a M-range with a opto-electronic and one with opto-mechanic.

 

This Opto-Electronic Rangefinder could also be interesting for MF-camera's

 

In my opinion to much for one manufacturer as small as Leica. 

It could be that manufacturing of the opto-electronic RF is a joined venture with Panasonic, to be used even in the Medium Format development (Sinar, Panasonic), for one or both companies. All guessing and wishful thinking. Who knows!!

 

And everybody is waiting for new T-lenses, I for one as a T-user!! Will there be both FF and APS-C versions, when a new FF-camera is coming with a T-mount??

[kkonkkrete]

I suspect the new camera series is going to be quite innovative / different from the norm in some important respects.

 

- There may well be no screen: when desired, image review will be done view the hybrid viewfinder.  This will cause some interesting interface issues for menu settings, but there will be dedicated buttons for all the most important variables.  You know, like in the olden days before any cameras had screens.

- Lightweight magnesium-based body

- Ability to superimpose digital display elements on top of optical viewfinder (like Fuji X100).  This will be very useful / crucial for being able to use both Manual and AF lenses.

[jaapv]

 

 

And everybody is waiting for new T-lenses, I for one as a T-user!! Will there be both FF and APS-C versions, when a new FF-camera is coming with a T-mount??

"If" would be more appropriate in my opinion..

I see no real reason to use the T mount for a camera intended for a new generation of lenses and to be compatible for vintage M lenses. It would make more sense to design a mount that is suitable for both without adapter

[saxo]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

 

Is it? To many users these are different tools, more supplementary than competing.

 

 

The A7 series can be used with Zeiss Loxia lenses, which gave pretty much the same compact combo as the Leica M. The only differences are the rangefinder (for those who still needs it), and on the other side (Sony) e.g. the use of real telephoto lenses, real macro lenses, and nowadays (series II) the steady shot(!), fast autofocus, lens adapter for Canon, Nikon, ...... etc. If you compare the two systems side by side, you will see what I mean.

 

By the way, I'm sure, there are currently not many users of a A7r II, who use the camera supplementary to a leica.....

 

I think Leica should face the fact. With the Q Leica proved to accept the challenge

 

I would rather go for Leica, but currently they don't offer a EVF-IL-system with AF and with the possibility using compact M-lenses as well. Therefore I'm looking elsewhere. Maybe I'm not the only one?

 

Martin

[AndreasAM]

"If" would be more appropriate in my opinion..

I see no real reason to use the T mount for a camera intended for a new generation of lenses and to be compatible for vintage M lenses. It would make more sense to design a mount that is suitable for both without adapter

 

Jaap, 

 

i concur with the "if". But that raises the question of why the T-mount is what it is, with measurements suitable for FF-lenses, but not backwards compatible with the M-lenses, for which an adapter is needed. They could have done this with the T- mount in the first place! Surely, they where developing the T, Q and the new one in an overlapping timeframe, the last three or so years. You don't introduce two new mounts when you can have one!

 

And looking at the patents for an opto-electronic RF, if becoming reality, a combined mount for AF and MF is already mentioned in 2012/2013. 

[AndreasAM]

Jaap,

 

And in addition to this, I have the feeling that they underuse the capabilities of the generous T-mount, with their 10 electronic contacts. There are even 10 contacts on the T-M adapter, not the six for potential lens recognition. They use an optical sensor for that. They have done this on purpose I think.

 

But I am not an electronic expert in this!

[jaapv]

As for the mount, I am not too sanguine about the current T and I do fully expect Leica to take steps to revitalize the system. But whether introducing cameras that are unsuitable for the current lenses is the way to go about it is highly doubtful imo.

A more likely speculation would be merging the X and the T line by making the next T camera more X-like.

 

 

 

 

@ SAXO: I find my 105-280 pretty real..

[dante]

A phase detect split-image RF-in-EVF is out there. Fuji has it. There is no technical barrier to something like that in an interchangeable lens Q. You won't get a split image RFoverlaid over an optical VF image (though Fuji lets you combine optical with a little popup EVF showing the split).

 

Dante

[sblitz]

An interchangeable lens Q, perhaps they will call it the QM as in Queen Mother ...... just sayin'

[AndreasAM]

Possible direction is:

1. Future M with M-mount. For using ( in the future) an opto-electronic RF in the M, a sensor is build into the mount for reading focusposition cam M-lens. The "purist" direction

2. Future FF and APS-C camera's with T- mount and AF lenses. An opto-electronic RF is possible in both formats with focuspositioning sensor in AF- lens. When using M-lenses on a T-mount with opto-electronic RF, a T-M adapter with sensor, to read focusposition of the cam M-lens, is available. Even an R-T adapter is feasable with this option (would be nice!)

[Belle123]

I am not reading all these replies, but the impression I get is a lot of people want a camera with autofocus which also leads to not wanting to think when taking photos.  When you work manual focus, you are assured you got the focus you want versus what the camera "thinks" you want based on settings.  For those in favor of auto focus and more buzzes and whistles, fatter bigger heavier camera, why on earth do you shoot with an M?  Would you not be happy with a Canon or Nikon or ........?

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

That's what I suspect it will be Erick ...........

me too

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I am not reading all these replies, but the impression I get is a lot of people want a camera with autofocus which also leads to not wanting to think when taking photos. When you work manual focus, you are assured you got the focus you want versus what the camera "thinks" you want based on settings. For those in favor of auto focus and more buzzes and whistles, fatter bigger heavier camera, why on earth do you shoot with an M? Would you not be happy with a Canon or Nikon or ........?

i switched to the S for AF as I am / was struggling with the rangefinder system due to my deteriorating eye sight

[jaapv]

I am not reading all these replies, but the impression I get is a lot of people want a camera with autofocus which also leads to not wanting to think when taking photos.  When you work manual focus, you are assured you got the focus you want versus what the camera "thinks" you want based on settings.  For those in favor of auto focus and more buzzes and whistles, fatter bigger heavier camera, why on earth do you shoot with an M?  Would you not be happy with a Canon or Nikon or ........?

Fatter,bigger,heavier...The Q kinda disproves that.

[pop]

I am not reading all these replies, but the impression I get is a lot of people want a camera with autofocus which also leads to not wanting to think when taking photos. 

Non sequitur.

 

When my son was born I decided that I preferred 80% of not-quite-well focused shots to 80% of quite-misfocused ones for my family pictures, given that young children tend to move faster than I focus. Not wanting to carry and accumulate more than one system, my manual system had to go. Of course, even the autofocus system allowed me to manually focus when and where I desired, and using the autofocus system in a productive manner does not reduce the amount of thinking required to take images. It changes the way you have to think about your tools.

[AndreasAM]

.... For those in favor of auto focus and more buzzes and whistles, fatter bigger heavier camera, why on earth do you shoot with an M?  Would you not be happy with a Canon or Nikon or ........?

The need for AutoFocus and the need for bells and whistles are two different things by the way.

 

Even the need of using (R-type) Leica lenses, not suitable for the classic RF- use, should be answered by Leica in time, to survive.

Long telephoto's, SWA and PC-lenses are all left out in the current Leica M scheme. Nothing wrong when Leica can develop a camera or camera's that can handle these lenses in an optimal ergonomic and optical way. It broadens the userpotential and the customerbase for Leica. It can widen the range and initiate future development of lenses. 

 

Because of these extra developments a more improved (classical) RF- camera from Leica can exist in the future?

 

I have the confidence in Leica that they can develop new camera's, which are up to the standards of the M and S type, and develop new killer lenses, whether they are AF or MF.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[joe1888]

Leica patent, released 2014: https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2014198245&recNum=1&maxRec=&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=&tab=PCT+Biblio

 

The sketch shows two sensors (5+6) for range measurement. Because this, it is possible the use the range finder with the built in EVF simultaneously. That´s cool.