jaapv Posted March 25, 2016 Share #121 Posted March 25, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just wanted to let you know that I received the last parts of my M system back from focus adjustment: happy end after all!!! But as you might have noticed I decided to part with some of my M gear (check the used gear section of this forum). This time I got an S while my M stuff was in for service: I feel much more secure with the S, can see better (I wear glasses), can control focus better and also the files look better. So finally the forum advice was right: that the M system might not be the right tool for me... I will try a combinatio of S plus some portable full frame camera - time will tell. Thanks again! What about the Q as a carry-everywhere? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 25, 2016 Posted March 25, 2016 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Focus adjustment Odyssey. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted March 25, 2016 Share #122 Posted March 25, 2016 Update: check out my S focus odyssey here! Leica seems to have lost focus. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpk Posted March 25, 2016 Author Share #123 Posted March 25, 2016 What about the Q as a carry-everywhere? Good idea But first I want to make sure that my existing stuff works to specification... I might upgrade my M240 to a new sensor model in the future, or I even might look into D5 / D500 territory, or I might swap my 006+M240 for a 007. In any case I expect Leica to cure my focus issues first... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrödinger's cat Posted March 25, 2016 Share #124 Posted March 25, 2016 Leica seems to have lost focus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DezFoto Posted March 28, 2016 Share #125 Posted March 28, 2016 I've had my M-P since last August (so not even a year) and the rangefinder has drifted already, despite relatively careful usage and storage. I've also had to have my 50mm Summilux ASPH, my 75mm Summicron and my 50mm Summarit 2.5 adjusted on different occasions. Both my M9's and my M8 also needed to go to New Jersey for calibration on numerous occasions. *sigh* Seems to be the cross we have to bear as rangefinder owners... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 28, 2016 Share #126 Posted March 28, 2016 I do not mean this sarcastically. I think the SL is the answer to your problems. When you own a large set of lenses that are very finicky (such as the 75lux), it is almost impossible to adjust the rangefinder perfectly to match each lens due to certain lenses being off or prone to focus shift. I played with an SL for a week and the viewfinder is so good that it makes it a great option for precise work such as portraiture or architecture. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpk Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share #127 Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I do not mean this sarcastically. I think the SL is the answer to your problems. When you own a large set of lenses that are very finicky (such as the 75lux), it is almost impossible to adjust the rangefinder perfectly to match each lens due to certain lenses being off or prone to focus shift. I played with an SL for a week and the viewfinder is so good that it makes it a great option for precise work such as portraiture or architecture. The problem I describe has nothing to do with focus shift. If it's possible to adjust lens A to body A, there is no reason why not to have lens B adjusted to body B. Or Lens X to body Y. And so on. In other words: if lens A fit's body B, why on earth should lens B not fit Body A?!? So I am sorry but I guess if it's true what you say than by logic it's also true what you are not saying: that it's not possible to have even one single lens adjusted to one body. Plus the whole M system since the 50s with all it's lenses was useless for wide open shot's with good focus until the arrival of the SL. I will only believe this if Leica officially conforms this :-) And I know you don't mean this sarcastically... Thanks anyway - but I don't agree... Also not sarcastically!!! Edited March 30, 2016 by jpk 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 30, 2016 Share #128 Posted March 30, 2016 You may well adjust "perfectly" difficult lenses like 75/1.4, 90/2 or 135/3.4 to any rangefinder body (besides 0.91x or 0.85x ones perhaps) those are lenses that are at the limit of the RF accuracy. You don't want me to do the maths do you. So when you shoot at full aperture with those lenses you'd better use a magnifier or, better still, an EVF if you want to get the same hit rate as with a mere $1k TTL camera. May be frustating if you shoot a lot with difficult lenses in which case i couldn't offer a better advice than BerdReini's above. Try an SL, a sony A7 or simply the EVF of your M240 but please don't expect any rangefinder to work the same way as a TTL camera, it cannot do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 31, 2016 Share #129 Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) So I am sorry but I guess if it's true what you say than by logic it's also true what you are not saying: that it's not possible to have even one single lens adjusted to one body. Plus the whole M system since the 50s with all it's lenses was useless for wide open shot's with good focus until the arrival of the SL. I own four Leica bodies, two film, two digital and probably a dozen lenses. My current bodies have never been adjusted, my 50mm summilux aspherical has been shimmed by Leica and is perfect now. I own a number of pretty "difficult" lenses like a Noctilux f1, a 75lux etc. and all of them behave predictably the same on each one of my bodies. When I mess around with a tape measure close to minimum focus distance at wide open aperture, they all fall between about a 1cm range of critical focus, which is about as precise as you can focus with a rangefinder. I don't know where you infer that it is not possible to adjust a single lens to one body, but I can tell you that I used to have a 75lux that I could never focus accurately with my M8 while all my other lenses fell within the small range I mentioned. I sold that lens and later was lucky enough to find another one. This current one focuses perfectly on all my bodies, but as others have mentioned, there is a practical limit to rangefinder focusing. The M system is not useless for all lenses wide open. I mostly shoot with M cameras and I have no problem focusing most lenses critically wide open, it is just harder to do with some than others and even harder to tell from the results whether you achieved perfect focus. When I use my 75lux, I sometimes question whether I missed focus simply because it renders a rather soft image compared to my 75cron or 50Apo. Here's my quick test I did when I bought my 50 Apo. I shoot a series of 4 or 5 of these handheld at slightly different distances and refocus in between. If the middle number is in focus, I deem the lens properly adjusted. If you can post some test shots of the lenses you are having difficulties with maybe focused at the 4ft mark on a tape measure, I would be happy to try and replicate the results with my 75lux and others for comparison. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 31, 2016 by BerndReini 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248162-focus-adjustment-odyssey/?do=findComment&comment=3017833'>More sharing options...
jpk Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share #130 Posted March 31, 2016 You may well adjust "perfectly" difficult lenses like 75/1.4, 90/2 or 135/3.4 to any rangefinder body (besides 0.91x or 0.85x ones perhaps) those are lenses that are at the limit of the RF accuracy. I did mention that I did not speak about difficult lenses. Nevertheless you are right: even difficult lenses can be adjusted if somebody does it carefully, and this pushes the RFs to it's limits. So when you shoot at full aperture with those lenses you'd better use a magnifier or, better still, an EVF Thanks for the hints - I am fine with the rangefinder for what I use it for, but as I stated earlier I kept only lenses 50mm or wider. please don't expect any rangefinder to work the same way as a TTL camera, it cannot do that. Again correct: a rangefinder works in a different way than a TTL... If you can post some test shots of the lenses you are having difficulties with maybe focused at the 4ft mark on a tape measure, I would be happy to try and replicate the results with my 75lux and others for comparison. Thank you for your kind offer. But I found my solution: stick with lenses with 50mm or wider, use TTL systems for critical work with longer lenses wide open. Unfortunately I experienced even in the S system focus problems, as mentioned... My test is very simple: I focus with LV (max magnification) and if the RF shows correct focus everything is fine. If not, RF and LV do not correspondent, in other words, the calibration is off. It's even possible to use the M240s LV to check the RF of an M9 if carried out carefully... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpk Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share #131 Posted April 2, 2016 (edited) Did I say that I test constantly and never take proper fotos...? I am not only taking pictures just for fun, I have also clients who pay. I will explain to them that my gear is out of alignment... THAT will save me some time Just for the record: I am not a pro, so I don't test unless I get the feeling there is something wrong. Edited April 2, 2016 by jpk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpk Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share #132 Posted April 2, 2016 I enclose a shot of M° Nicolaus Harnoncourt who passed away recently. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248162-focus-adjustment-odyssey/?do=findComment&comment=3019217'>More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted April 3, 2016 Share #133 Posted April 3, 2016 The electronic viso is a good solution for when you need perfection. I still have 3 optical visos and lens heads. They never miss. I had a 75 1.4 since 1980`s and never got good photos wide open. 2.8 was spectacular. I now understand focus shift because of digital. The lens back focused at 1.4 where it was pretty sharp. I am thinking it was optimized for 2.8. This lens can not be used digital if focus shift is present and a RF camera is used. I think floating elements is a substantial cure but not perfect cure which is why many new lenses use them. Personally I do not use a RF so close as to be a problem. There is the optical viso , Nikon digital, or 240 electronic viso. Make pictures and be happy or switch to a reflex system Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted April 4, 2016 Share #134 Posted April 4, 2016 I believe that one huge problem is the nature of the digital image, which is a blessing and a curse. You don't have to wait until your negatives come back to realize that a shot was out of focus, but on the other hand digital is so unforgiving that the slightest focusing error becomes so painfully evident. The files form the digital Ms are so sharp, and there is no thick emulsion, no grain, not even the softness form slow shutter speeds due to the spoils of high ISO capabilities. Were we to "pixel"-peep the prints from the fifties through the seventies that made Leica so famous, we would quickly realize that our standards for image sharpness have risen to a new critical level. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpk Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share #135 Posted April 4, 2016 Were we to "pixel"-peep the prints from the fifties through the seventies that made Leica so famous, we would quickly realize that our standards for image sharpness have risen to a new critical level. Absolutely true! Here 2 shots I could only get because of focus bracketing: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248162-focus-adjustment-odyssey/?do=findComment&comment=3020233'>More sharing options...
jpk Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share #136 Posted April 4, 2016 . Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248162-focus-adjustment-odyssey/?do=findComment&comment=3020234'>More sharing options...
jpk Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share #137 Posted April 4, 2016 They are critically sharp, but the forum seems to compress the quality so the pictures look soft The situation with the alligator was very close, so I am not exactly happy that I can only get sharp images by focus bracketing... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248162-focus-adjustment-odyssey/?do=findComment&comment=3020235'>More sharing options...
jpk Posted April 11, 2022 Author Share #138 Posted April 11, 2022 Just an update: I swapped my Monochrom for one with a new sensor some time ago, it worked well, but my Apo-50 recently had oil on the blades and the aperture ring got loose, so I had to have it repaired. I asked for not changing the focus adjustment, but it came back not matching my Monochrom any more. So now my Monochrom is with all my lenses at Leica for focus adjustment... BTW in 2015 I asked the shop for a list of how often my gear was in for focus adjustment, I have attached what they wrote for me. Also my S gear was multiple times in for service, see here and here... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248162-focus-adjustment-odyssey/?do=findComment&comment=4416664'>More sharing options...
jpk Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share #139 Posted June 23, 2022 Update: I received test shots after focus adjustment was done (see attached files). I cropped their test picture and added markings: blue = in focus range, green = what should be in focus instead. On my complain they replied that it's correct like that because of focus drift when closing the aperture (note: it's an APO-M 50mm on the 18MP Monochrom). I asked a technician to verify: contrary to their previous claim and(!) in accordance with what they told me the last couple of times I sent in my M system for focus adjustment he confirmed my opinion, so I asked again for focus adjustment based on my green markings. I know that once sorted the kit will be great, but it takes so much time, so much effort to discuss, and (see previous postings) so many times until they get it right. What shall I think of all this, spending such a huge amount of money for products that are advertised as the pinnacle of the hightes possible precision...? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248162-focus-adjustment-odyssey/?do=findComment&comment=4458769'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 28, 2022 Share #140 Posted June 28, 2022 It still remains a (modified) double-gauss design so I would not be surprised if it exhibited some focus shift. Repeat your experiment at different apertures. Normally one would adjust a lens to be spot-on @ about f2.8 to remain in focus for the whole aperture range, which means it would be slightly shifted wide open. BTW, the 1/3rd-2/3rds rule for DOF only applies at one intermediate distance. https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/100777/any-truth-that-depth-of-field-extends-from-one-third-in-front-of-focal-point-to Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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