The 28 Summilux and Shallow DOF: Why the newfound malice toward Bokeh??

[Stein K S]

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Hi

interesting discussion... and I thought early on that I probably wanted to stay out of it...;-)

 

However, just after reading through all 160 comments, I also received the LFI 5.2015 with among others the Oskar Barnack Awards 2015. And when skimming through I immediately found the OB finalist photo of Fabio Bucciarelli from Sudan on page 17 to be quite relevant to this discussion... with a very deliberate ( and in my mind also somewhat special/extensive) use of DOF.

 

Could this single (and rewarded) photo add anything constructive or helpful to this discussion representing something concrete...?

 

Since I am the sender of this comment, I guess I also should start with my comment: and yes, I am one of those that can find myself playing with my 35 Lux wide open... But I find the OOF foreground in this photo to be  a bit to dominating and disturbing according to my idea of a "balanced" use of OOF...

 

So any comments... (or am I provocative in any way that I am not aware of...)?

 

Stein Kjetil

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[CheshireCat]

I also received the LFI 5.2015 with among others the Oskar Barnack Awards 2015. And when skimming through I immediately found the OB finalist photo of Fabio Bucciarelli from Sudan on page 17 to be quite relevant to this discussion... with a very deliberate ( and in my mind also somewhat special/extensive) use of DOF.

 

Some of us are not subscribers to LFI. Can you post a link to the image ?

[hiepphotog]

Some of us are not subscribers to LFI. Can you post a link to the image ?

https://lfi-online.de/ceemes/en/news/obp-2015-finalisten-1002259.html#title

[Stein K S]

Some of us are not subscribers to LFI. Can you post a link to the image ?

Sorry... I do not know how to... I have only the paper copy myself. 

 

Could the Oskar Barnack Awards 2015 be searched for? I do really appologize if I did "awake" much curiosity around a photo that in practice show to be hard/impossible to get for many members here! I ment all well.

 

regards, Stein Kjetil

[Stein K S]

https://lfi-online.de/ceemes/en/news/obp-2015-finalisten-1002259.html#title

Hi and thanks

 

But the photo by Fabio B showing up under this link is not the one I am referring to. The photo I am referring to is of a herdsman (out of focus) in front and with the cows in the back being in focus...

 

regards, Stein Kjetil

[lct]

This one?

http://tinyurl.com/oybfrvk

[LocalHero1953]

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I disagree.

 

The photography is such a fundamentally different thing from painting that I don't think this really works.

I'm puzzled why you think this, Peter - care to elaborate? Both on why photography is so fundamentally different from painting and ​why dimensionality, or depth, is not relevant in the context of bokeh?

 

While I think attractive bokeh may be seen as an end in itself (not for me though, except occasionally with old swirly lenses), I do think its use is just another technique for creating a sense of depth, which in turn helps separate the subject of an image from the rest. It's not the only technique, nor is creating a sense of depth the only aim of photography, but it seems a valid approach.

 

I also try sometimes to draw lessons from painters and try them out on my photographs e.g. Vermeer's use of different sight lines through and round buildings to create a sense of depth (again!). I'm not trying to be Vermeer, just learning other techniques which I may just as well discard.

[edwardkaraa]

Hi and thanks

 

But the photo by Fabio B showing up under this link is not the one I am referring to. The photo I am referring to is of a herdsman (out of focus) in front and with the cows in the back being in focus...

 

regards, Stein Kjetil

But I don't think the photo referred to is what we're discussing here. The out of focus herdsman still has plenty of detail to be recognized. It's a classic selective focus reportage shot not a bokeh shot per se.

[gpwhite]

But I don't think the photo referred to is what we're discussing here. The out of focus herdsman still has plenty of detail to be recognized. It's a classic selective focus reportage shot not a bokeh shot per se.

 

I thought the view (or complaint) motivating this thread was the thin DOF approach, which has been made even more popular by Thorsten's work with his 0.95 Noct. In that context, the shot of the herdsman is exactly on point. If it had been taken with a 28 Summilux at f/1.7 or maybe f/2, that is what you would get.

 

It is another matter entirely, IMHO, to shoot a 135mm f/2 wide open against the light. 

[edwardkaraa]

I thought the view (or complaint) motivating this thread was the thin DOF approach, which has been made even more popular by Thorsten's work with his 0.95 Noct. In that context, the shot of the herdsman is exactly on point. If it had been taken with a 28 Summilux at f/1.7 or maybe f/2, that is what you would get.

 

It is another matter entirely, IMHO, to shoot a 135mm f/2 wide open against the light.

Then I'm afraid we're all talking about different things

I have the impression that most participants who expressed negative views talked mainly about the overuse of the very thin DOF on mostly uninteresting casual subjects. In the case of the photo in question, the subject is very interesting and meaningful, the foreground blur is subtle and the elements of the photo are all clear and recognizable. Had the photographer focused on the eyebrow of the herdsman with everything else blurred beyond recognition, that would have been the kind of photo scoffed at in this thread.

[CheshireCat]

I immediately found the OB finalist photo of Fabio Bucciarelli from Sudan on page 17 to be quite relevant to this discussion... with a very deliberate ( and in my mind also somewhat special/extensive) use of DOF.

 

Could this single (and rewarded) photo add anything constructive or helpful to this discussion representing something concrete...?

 

I think this photo is very relevant to the discussion.

 

First impression: the fact I cannot re-focus on the guy annoys me at first.

But then, after studying a bit, I find that this photo works very well if you do what the photographer wants you to do: focus on the cows, like you wanted to get nearer to them. Now it is clear that the ominous armed guy is standing in between and won't let you.

Nice 3D pop because of the shallow DOF.

 

Note that Fabio has other photos in his portfolio using this technique: i.e. foreground subject very OOF. Some of them don't work for me, but I must praise his attempt to do something different than what the dogmas say.

[MarkP]

Or this is NOT deliberate and he just had limited time and/or opportunity and/or available light and/or any other variable in which to optimise the aperture for this fantastic photograph. One needs to be careful in over-interpreting technical components of reportage photography because just capturing the image itself is paramount (especially in difficult circumstances).

[Stein K S]

This one?

http://tinyurl.com/oybfrvk

Yes! Thanks a lot!

 

regards, Stein Kjetil

[edwardkaraa]

I think this photo is very relevant to the discussion.

 

First impression: the fact I cannot re-focus on the guy annoys me at first.

But then, after studying a bit, I find that this photo works very well if you do what the photographer wants you to do: focus on the cows, like you wanted to get nearer to them. Now it is clear that the ominous armed guy is standing in between and won't let you.

Nice 3D pop because of the shallow DOF.

 

Note that Fabio has other photos in his portfolio using this technique: i.e. foreground subject very OOF. Some of them don't work for me, but I must praise his attempt to do something different than what the dogmas say.

I confess this is a technique I also use a lot. I like blurring the foreground and use it to frame the subject. But it should be noted that even at smaller apertures like f/2.8-4, the foreground blur is still quite pronounced, even more esthetic, depending on the distance. That I don't find objectionable in any way. As mentioned a zillion time, what I object is bokeh shots without meaningful content. This photo is nothing like that.

[lct]

Indeed. Knowing the tribal wars in Sudan i would have probably focused on the gun and miss the shot...