timde Posted June 3, 2015 Share #321 Posted June 3, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I wish i were wrong but i don't see how a 28/1.7 lens + a built-in EVF could be stuffed in a compact FF camera. YMMV. Sony provide a good example of what is possible, here you see a comparison of Leica X and Sony FF: http://camerasize.com/compact/#579,376,576,ha,t There seems to be a lot of scope to achieve something compelling, funny enough if Leica can do it and price it low enough they could find themselves as market leaders ... putting a dent in APS-C "classics" from Fuji and Co. How does an EVF fit into all that, Fuji did it well in the past, so it must be possible ... but until recently I think Leica and Sony were happy to sell "Optional" viewfinder as accessories. Hopefully times are about to change on that one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Hi timde, Take a look here The next speculation . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
algrove Posted June 3, 2015 Share #322 Posted June 3, 2015 I want to see if it is "cutting edge". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted June 3, 2015 Share #323 Posted June 3, 2015 Sony provide a good example of what is possible, here you see a comparison of Leica X and Sony FF: http://camerasize.com/compact/#579,376,576,ha,t If you go to the site above and add the Leica T with 23mm and Leica M with 50 Summicron, it is interesting. The A7 is clearly the bulkiest package and the T is not that much bigger than the RX1 or X. And the M, in size, looks bigger but not dramatically so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 3, 2015 Share #324 Posted June 3, 2015 Sony provide a good example of what is possible, here you see a comparison of Leica X and Sony FF Yes i know this thank you but a 28/1.7 + a built-in EVF in a compact FF body? Again i wish i were wrong but i can't believe that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 3, 2015 Share #325 Posted June 3, 2015 Yes i know this thank you but a 28/1.7 + a built-in EVF in a compact FF body? Again i wish i were wrong but i can't believe that. me too... even if the NEX 7 proves that an EVF can be decently integrated in a small and slim body... but Leica isn't Sony when it comes to electronic packaging... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timde Posted June 3, 2015 Share #326 Posted June 3, 2015 me too... even if the NEX 7 proves that an EVF can be decently integrated in a small and slim body... but Leica isn't Sony when it comes to electronic packaging... It cannot be that only Fuji can implement a good looking EVF solution and only Sony a compact EVF solution! Leica needs to remind the great unwashed of who invented the compact 35mm camera ... and then price it so we who are unclean can afford it Ship it with a pair of disposable surgical gloves ... and pack it in a recycled cardboard box Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 3, 2015 Share #327 Posted June 3, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) me too... even if the NEX 7 proves that an EVF can be decently integrated in a small and slim body... but Leica isn't Sony when it comes to electronic packaging... You mean Leica is not cutting edge technology? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted June 3, 2015 Share #328 Posted June 3, 2015 You mean Leica is not cutting edge technology? I wonder where that preoccupation with cutting edge technology comes from. When I use my camera I don't give it a thought whether there are other cameras which do other thinngs well. Cutting edge is mostly relevant when cutting things, such as bread, fruit or meat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kilmister Posted June 3, 2015 Share #329 Posted June 3, 2015 I wonder where that preoccupation with cutting edge technology comes from. When I use my camera I don't give it a thought whether there are other cameras which do other thinngs well. Cutting edge is mostly relevant when cutting things, such as bread, fruit or meat. Brilliant summary, pop. I really appreciate your wisdom on this speculative subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 4, 2015 Share #330 Posted June 4, 2015 I wonder where that preoccupation with cutting edge technology comes from. When I use my camera I don't give it a thought whether there are other cameras which do other thinngs well. Cutting edge is mostly relevant when cutting things, such as bread, fruit or meat. I'm trying to think of Leica being "cutting edge" in the sense you are using it, Pop. The Barnack camera took 135mm roll film and developed a compact camera which used this film effectively, instead of 120 roll film (like the Box Brownie). As I recall, the M3 was actually not revolutionary - in the sense that it took technology that others were using, and refined them into a coupled rangefinder camera with very good interchangeable lenses - as a package, it was highly polished, but not on the bleeding edge of technology. I guess the same could be said for the M9 - an 18MP sensor shoehorned into the M body. But I do think you can say that as a complete product, Leica cameras do (should) provide a well polished camera with image quality that is best in class. The cameras are the best expression of the current state of the art. If it is less than current state of the art, then the whole point tends to fall off, and they look like indifferent over-priced luxury symbols. The problem with some of what Leica has come up with is that the technology they have adopted is quite a bit less than state of the art - it's yesteryear. In the film era, that didn't matter so much. In the electronic era, it's critical. Saying the image quality is as much as or more than you need is fine, but attracting new purchasers who understand obsolescence and accept that they will be tossing the camera in the bin in less than 10 years, it isn't good at all. For myself - said it many times, I'm happy with what I have and I will pay Leica to keep fixing those cameras (after the warranty has expired) for as long as they will fix them. But in the electronic edge, most people want cutting edge and proven. If it isn't proven, they might accept today's technology rather than tomorrow's; yesterday's, not so much. Leica is actually selling last year's ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 4, 2015 Share #331 Posted June 4, 2015 [...] As I recall, the M3 was actually not revolutionary - in the sense that it took technology that others were using, and refined them into a coupled rangefinder camera with very good interchangeable lenses - as a package, it was highly polished, but not on the bleeding edge of technology [...] The M3 was the first camera combining split image and coincidence rangefinders into the viewfinder and also the first camera with parallax corrected framelines changing automatically when lenses changed. Not sure if this can be called "revolutionary" but i wonder which other camera was on the "bleeding edge" in 1954 then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 4, 2015 Share #332 Posted June 4, 2015 [...] The problem with some of what Leica has come up with is that the technology they have adopted is quite a bit less than state of the art - it's yesteryear [...] Not sure if you refer to S, T or X systems i have no experience with but as far as the M system is concerned, could you name another rangefinder being more "state of the art" than current Leicas? Some accessory functions like LV and EVF are not on the "bleeding edge" certainly but they are just that, accessory, and they will improve very soon hopefully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted June 4, 2015 Share #333 Posted June 4, 2015 For myself - said it many times, I'm happy with what I have and I will pay Leica to keep fixing those cameras (after the warranty has expired) for as long as they will fix them. But in the electronic edge, most people want cutting edge and proven. If it isn't proven, they might accept today's technology rather than tomorrow's; yesterday's, not so much. Leica is actually selling last year's ... We're going to read this back to you (in less than 10 years) after you buy another Leica digital body. I don't know exactly what it will be or exactly when you will buy it but I am confident about this prediction. Are you willing to bet a cup of coffee on it? The loser has to bring the coffee to the winner. Game? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 4, 2015 Share #334 Posted June 4, 2015 We're going to read this back to you (in less than 10 years) after you buy another Leica digital body. I don't know exactly what it will be or exactly when you will buy it but I am confident about this prediction. Are you willing to bet a cup of coffee on it? The loser has to bring the coffee to the winner. Game? Hmm, what would make me unhappy with what I currently have? Until my M9 died, my track record has been FM2 (new in 1988) and F5 (new in 1999?). Apart from the stupid blind alleys of the A7r and D800E (I don't know what I was thinking), I think it's a safe bet. I'm off the hook if Leica can't/won't fix it to my satisfaction - M8 coffee stain LCD and M9 corrosion (I don't think I should be forced to accept the continuation of faulty components). Let's make it a bottle of Grange Hermitage, couriered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted June 4, 2015 Share #335 Posted June 4, 2015 I'm trying to think of Leica being "cutting edge" in the sense you are using it, Pop. The Barnack camera took 135mm roll film and developed a compact camera which used this film effectively, instead of 120 roll film (like the Box Brownie). As I recall, the M3 was actually not revolutionary - in the sense that it took technology that others were using, and refined them into a coupled rangefinder camera with very good interchangeable lenses - as a package, it was highly polished, but not on the bleeding edge of technology. I guess the same could be said for the M9 - an 18MP sensor shoehorned into the M body. But I do think you can say that as a complete product, Leica cameras do (should) provide a well polished camera with image quality that is best in class. The cameras are the best expression of the current state of the art. If it is less than current state of the art, then the whole point tends to fall off, and they look like indifferent over-priced luxury symbols. That's also all that Apple does. The iPhone wasn't anything new, touchscreens existed as did graphical mobile OSes. They put it all in a polished product that was very usable and in doing this they shook up an entire industry and forever changed the demographics of users and the size of the industry. Same for the iPod and iPad, music players and tablets already existed. Polish matters as much as invention. If a new technology isn't highly polished, it doesn't get used and is therefore worthless. This is what Leica does. And in the Leica T they seemed to have taken design and concept cues from Apple. The problem with some of what Leica has come up with is that the technology they have adopted is quite a bit less than state of the art - it's yesteryear. In the film era, that didn't matter so much. In the electronic era, it's critical. Saying the image quality is as much as or more than you need is fine, but attracting new purchasers who understand obsolescence and accept that they will be tossing the camera in the bin in less than 10 years, it isn't good at all. For myself - said it many times, I'm happy with what I have and I will pay Leica to keep fixing those cameras (after the warranty has expired) for as long as they will fix them. But in the electronic edge, most people want cutting edge and proven. If it isn't proven, they might accept today's technology rather than tomorrow's; yesterday's, not so much. Leica is actually selling last year's ... Things are not as 'obsolete' as you say. The M240 for example has a great image sensor that out performs the 5D Mark III and 6D at low ISO ( the top selling full frame DSLRs). The M240 is also the first full frame mirrorless body with an EVF and liveview, the M9 was the first full frame mirrorless body of any sort. These cameras the cutting edge. Sony is merely playing catch up with the A7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted June 4, 2015 Share #336 Posted June 4, 2015 The M system is unique. It provides ultra-small lenses with the best optical quality for 24x36 format. None can match this. Only Leica does this. Manual focus is the price you have to pay for that privilege. No one is matching this because the M system was meant for film, therefore digital sensors for the M must be specifically designed to handle the steep ray angles of all compact wide-angle lenses -- despite all the shortcomings we know. As soon as new sensors able to handle steep ray angles become available, it will be just a matter of paying the extra price for ultra-small and high-performance wide-angle lenses. I am sure Zeiss will gladly take our money in exchange for great ultra-compact lenses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share #337 Posted June 4, 2015 Zeiss already makes lenses like the C-Biogon. They don’t appear to sell in huge numbers though. (unjustly, IMO) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted June 4, 2015 Share #338 Posted June 4, 2015 Zeiss already makes lenses like the C-Biogon. They don’t appear to sell in huge numbers though. (unjustly, IMO) Interesting, what are the numbers ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share #339 Posted June 4, 2015 No idea, hence the word appear,, but how many do you see around? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xspider Posted June 4, 2015 Share #340 Posted June 4, 2015 looks nice http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/first-image-and-full-specs-of-the-new-leica-q-fixed-lens-full-frame-camera Let's see how much it is, but I fear it will be twice the cost of a Sony RX1 which is a great camera. Let's hope the performance will at least somehow justify that premium... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.