Leica Upgrade program for M9 ( corrosion of sensor)

[jaapv]

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True -

[David Hughes]

Now that's settled, can we start a minilux error thread...

 

Regards, David

[Greenacres]

Thank you Mr Daniel, and Leica, for this very reassuring news. Like many others, i saved for a while and sold other equipment to achieve my dream of owning an M9 to accompany my M6. I became quite disheartened on hearing about this potentially terminal sensor problem, and hearing all of the Leica 'bashing' comments on this and other forums. I have not commented on this issue so far, as i felt sure that Leica would do the right thing for their customers, and it appears that i was correct. I can now continue to use this wonderful camera for many years to come. I may also now also consider a Monochrom.... Well done Leica, from a happy customer.

[captain]

Great response from Leica.

Wonderful that the problem will be fixed for customers, as and when, (if) it arises.

 

Steve.

 

Im really quite surprised at the amount of people thanking Leica and saying how wonderful this response is? The thread that raised this issue had been going for over a year. Those with sensor problems had started at least a year prior to that. Leica knew even before the 2013 thread started there was an issue and were replacing sensors. Then deliberately kept quiet on this issue for years to prevent a flood of people from noticing their sensors were flawed and discretely replacing those that did. It was only after the thread became so loud for so long that they had to reluctantly make an announcement now. Some people have already had to wait 6 months to have their cameras fixed. Its its reminiscent of the original M8 IR issue and asking reviewers to keep silent about and hope the users didnt notice it all over again. Now I love the brand I have 6 M lenses a couple of enlargers, binoculars, projectors (even a 110 format one!) But when it comes to digital camera bodies Leica simply lets you down and hopes you wont notice when these problems occur. Because Leica cannot be trusted on this front my digital experiences are limited to cropped sensors and M mount adapters to others brands.

 

Sorry but Leica does not deserve the pat on the back or praise for years of silence and slow response and people left without their very expensive cameras for months on end. I know I will cop alot of flack for saying this because your not allowed to say a bad word about them on their own forum, but all these feel good thankyou messages are not what Leica needs to hear to get its act together on its digital bodies. For a premier German brand this is appalling. A contrite apology years after the start and an offer to replace the sensors when thats what they have already been doing on the down low all this time hoping few others notice the problem is hardly worthy of any admiration.

[David Hughes]

Exactly, I couldn't have put it better myself. I mean, it's just a camera...

 

Regards, David

[jaapv]

Im really quite surprised at the amount of people thanking Leica and saying how wonderful this response is? The thread that raised this issue had been going for over a year. Those with sensor problems had started at least a year prior to that. Leica knew even before the 2013 thread started there was an issue and were replacing sensors. Then deliberately kept quiet on this issue for years to prevent a flood of people from noticing their sensors were flawed and discretely replacing those that did. It was only after the thread became so loud for so long that they had to reluctantly make an announcement now. Some people have already had to wait 6 months to have their cameras fixed. Its its reminiscent of the original M8 IR issue and asking reviewers to keep silent about and hope the users didnt notice it all over again. Now I love the brand I have 6 M lenses a couple of enlargers, binoculars, projectors (even a 110 format one!) But when it comes to digital camera bodies Leica simply lets you down and hopes you wont notice when these problems occur. Because Leica cannot be trusted on this front my digital experiences are limited to cropped sensors and M mount adapters to others brands.

 

Sorry but Leica does not deserve the pat on the back or praise for years of silence and slow response and people left without their very expensive cameras for months on end. I know I will cop alot of flack for saying this because your not allowed to say a bad word about them on their own forum, but all these feel good thankyou messages are not what Leica needs to hear to get its act together on its digital bodies. For a premier German brand this is appalling. A contrite apology years after the start and an offer to replace the sensors when thats what they have already been doing on the down low all this time hoping few others notice the problem is hardly worthy of any admiration.

One thing, this is not Leica's forum. It has a good relationship with the factory, fortunately, but it is complete independent.

Senseless bashing is indeed not allowed, but criticism is welcome.

[phantom]

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tempo fa il mio rivenditore valutava la mia ME 1800 euro ..... e vendeva la M9 usata a 3000 euro

[wattsy]

Im really quite surprised at the amount of people thanking Leica and saying how wonderful this response is?

 

Yes, I don't get it either. In the face of mounting online criticism and in the interests of reputation management, Leica have chosen to backtrack from the previous policy to charge for replacing sensors in "older" cameras. They have now taken the pragmatic option of guaranteeing the sensor from this particular problem – it's pretty much the minimum they can offer and what they should have done in the first place. They have not addressed (other than in the vaguest terms) the real problem which is the three month or longer turnaround period for such repairs and is a problem that IMO will continue to damage the brand. Once all the congratulatory (and cringeworthy) nonsense dies down, the M9 (and maybe to a lesser extent) the Monochrom will still have a toxic reputation – anyone here still planning on buying an M9 for £2500?

 

Reliability is ultimately the key to how we perceive products and this announcement from Leica doesn't change the fact that three out of four M bodies I have bought recently have required lengthy service in Germany. I still like their film cameras and lenses and will probably buy more of those going forward but there comes a point when, with regard to the digital bodies, you have to start thinking it's time to move on.

[Paul J]

They are replacing sensors for free and are doing so regardless of the age of the camera or warranty status. They are also refunding anyone who has already paid for a repair. The company has well and truly proven to stand by its products and customers and that is all that matters to me.

 

Anything else is just dogs barking at the moon and something I will ignore. Complaining about this is beyond my comprehension.

[jaapv]

tempo fa il mio rivenditore valutava la mia ME 1800 euro ..... e vendeva la M9 usata a 3000 euro

 

Please note that this is an international forum with English as the communal language; that some of us do understand Italian is fine, but it is more productive to use English.

1800 for a relatively new ME seems to me to be rather low.

[Rick]

Im really quite surprised at the amount of people thanking Leica and saying how wonderful this response is? The thread that raised this issue had been going for over a year. Those with sensor problems had started at least a year prior to that. Leica knew even before the 2013 thread started there was an issue and were replacing sensors. Then deliberately kept quiet on this issue for years to prevent a flood of people from noticing their sensors were flawed and discretely replacing those that did. It was only after the thread became so loud for so long that they had to reluctantly make an announcement now. Some people have already had to wait 6 months to have their cameras fixed. Its its reminiscent of the original M8 IR issue and asking reviewers to keep silent about and hope the users didnt notice it all over again. Now I love the brand I have 6 M lenses a couple of enlargers, binoculars, projectors (even a 110 format one!) But when it comes to digital camera bodies Leica simply lets you down and hopes you wont notice when these problems occur. Because Leica cannot be trusted on this front my digital experiences are limited to cropped sensors and M mount adapters to others brands.

 

Sorry but Leica does not deserve the pat on the back or praise for years of silence and slow response and people left without their very expensive cameras for months on end. I know I will cop alot of flack for saying this because your not allowed to say a bad word about them on their own forum, but all these feel good thankyou messages are not what Leica needs to hear to get its act together on its digital bodies. For a premier German brand this is appalling. A contrite apology years after the start and an offer to replace the sensors when thats what they have already been doing on the down low all this time hoping few others notice the problem is hardly worthy of any admiration.

 

Completely agree - Just read the last 2-years of the thread, "Strange white spots on M9 sensor?" Everything you have said has been said before, nothing new.

 

But, realize this issue has been an evolving problem. I'm sure very early in this story Leica was not aware that this may turn out to be an issue that affects every camera, and I'm still not sure if anyone knows whether it will affect every camera. So, it appears Leica evolved a strategy to replace sensors that were returned at no charge. Leica even replaced sensors as they discovered the issue in some cameras that were returned for service for other issues. They probably became increasingly concerned as time went on and they were replacing more and more sensors. But, I don't see any deception in this.

 

As the story evolved it probably became even more apparent to Leica that this was a bigger issue. I don't fault them for not announcing earlier that something has been happening to some cameras. I believe Leica also followed the thread on LUF as it evolved and it finally became apparent from reading the last couple months of this thread that this could involve more cameras than they initially realized.

 

Like a lot of things, sometimes circumstances and events suddenly become critical very quickly and I'm sure Leica realized how serious and widespread the issue was becoming (thanks to our members posting here) and it became a priority to announce a policy.

 

I was impressed with their policy and also that they acknowledged and delineated the cause of the problem and they even suggested they are trying to find a more permanent fix (which I assume is new glass).

 

I stayed out of the the thread until now, but read it over the years. I don't own the M9 anymore. If I did I would be very relieved and happy with Leica acknowledging this unfortunate problem and formally providing what so far seems a reasonable policy going forward. A lot of owners that love the unique M9 and MM with the CCD sensor are going to get what may be a new type cover glass on a new sensor and main board - almost a completely new camera. Sounds good to me. Bravo.

 

I guess I don't get as personal about it. Stuff happens. Acknowledge it and fix it. Leica did. Let's move on.

 

 

 

Rick

[jaapv]

Yes, I don't get it either. In the face of mounting online criticism and in the interests of reputation management, Leica have chosen to backtrack from the previous policy to charge for replacing sensors in "older" cameras. They have now taken the pragmatic option of guaranteeing the sensor from this particular problem – it's pretty much the minimum they can offer and what they should have done in the first place. They have not addressed (other than in the vaguest terms) the real problem which is the three month or longer turnaround period for such repairs and is a problem that IMO will continue to damage the brand. Once all the congratulatory (and cringeworthy) nonsense dies down, the M9 (and maybe to a lesser extent) the Monochrom will still have a toxic reputation – anyone here still planning on buying an M9 for £2500?

 

Reliability is ultimately the key to how we perceive products and this announcement from Leica doesn't change the fact that three out of four M bodies I have bought recently have required lengthy service in Germany. I still like their film cameras and lenses and will probably buy more of those going forward but there comes a point when, with regard to the digital bodies, you have to start thinking it's time to move on.

 

I don't see it that way. I read the reactions as relief that things are back to normal.

 

I agree that Leica should take a good look at the logistics of their part supply chain. Long overdue imho.

[ALD]

I must agree with Captain and Wattsy here. There have been many people that forked out hard earned money to chase their dream of owning a Leica and were disappointed by the sensor issue being ignored for such a long time. I had to sell my M9 for mainly financial reasons but really I was always telling myself to sell it regardless, because if the sensor packs up, as so many had done, then I would be sitting with the problem and the costs and stress of dealing with repairs, couriers and replacements.

 

Leica was very slow in coming to this positive response which is graciously accepted and recognised as the right thing that they should have done immediately upon principle and not when the numbers finally told them brand damage was occurring. They have done the right thing now and have offered justice to all affected and we must therefore forgive and forget and continue onwards together with Leica on our journey together.

 

Leica must somehow engrave upon the soul of Leica the following understanding!

 

Leica is the icon of photographic artistic beauty, of endurance, quality and timelessness. People buy one and want it to be their camera for life. A companion.

 

They pay the large sums of money for it so that it lasts a lifetime.

[Paul J]

I do think some good points are being raised. Nothing can be perfect, of corse, there must always be criticism for any company to grow and get better. There are certainly somethings that Leica need to address, moving forward, and some of which Leica can not afford to ignore. However, for me personally, when a company stands by it's products in this way, that is enough for me to trust them for future purchases.

[jaapv]

I must agree with Captain and Wattsy here. There have been many people that forked out hard earned money to chase their dream of owning a Leica and were disappointed by the sensor issue being ignored for such a long time. I had to sell my M9 for mainly financial reasons but really I was always telling myself to sell it regardless, because if the sensor packs up, as so many had done, then I would be sitting with the problem and the costs and stress of dealing with repairs, couriers and replacements.

 

Leica was very slow in coming to this positive response which is graciously accepted and recognised as the right thing that they should have done immediately upon principle and not when the numbers finally told them brand damage was occurring. They have done the right thing now and have offered justice to all affected and we must therefore forgive and forget and continue onwards together with Leica on our journey together.

 

Leica must somehow engrave upon the soul of Leica the following understanding!

 

Leica is the icon of photographic artistic beauty, of endurance, quality and timelessness. People buy one and want it to be their camera for life. A companion.

 

They pay the large sums of money for it so that it lasts a lifetime.

Very slow? One week... It just confirms the practice they have been following for over a decade.

My analysis: the first announcement was triggered by bean counters noticing that an increasing number of M9s were coming in with this complaint. It took just a few days for the real decision makers at Leica to bring the company back on course.

[visoflex]

This is to be welcomed.

 

Will the offer be time limited? If so, do we know for how long?

[Rick]

I do think some good points are being raised. Nothing can be perfect, of corse, there must always be criticism for any company to grow and get better. There are certainly somethings that Leica need to address, moving forward, and some of which Leica can not afford to ignore. However, for me personally, when a company stands by it's products in this way, that is enough for me to trust them for future purchases.

 

Very balanced, Paul. And, I agree with you and others that there is nothing wrong with criticizing a company that we have an interest in it growing better.

 

But, (not directed at you) I'm not ready to start right back in being critical of Leica today. They just took a massive action to make this right. This is hugely significant on so many levels, not just to those that own the camera. I don't believe the response to this announcement should be more criticism. When your dog finally learns to retrieve the stick you have been throwing, don't hit him over the head with it.

 

Let's just enjoy the outcome for a while and feel happy for all of those M9 and MM owners that must be relieved.

 

Today was a good day,

 

 

 

Rick

[Paul J]

Very balanced, Paul. And, I agree with you and others that there is nothing wrong with criticizing a company that we have an interest in it growing better.

 

But, (not directed at you) I'm not ready to start right back in being critical of Leica today. They just took a massive action to make this right. This is hugely significant on so many levels, not just to those that own the camera. I don't believe the response to this announcement should be more criticism. When your dog finally learns to retrieve the stick you have been throwing, don't hit him over the head with it.

 

Let's just enjoy the outcome for a while and feel happy for all of those M9 and MM owners that must be relieved.

 

Today was a good day,

 

Rick

 

Very well said, I couldn't agree with you more, I'm over the moon with the news. The one camera I enjoy using and want to use for as long as I can, is here to stay, at least a fair bit longer and there is proof of a company I want to see last and succeed, growing and getting better, taking care of their customers. I'm not sure why that would bother any one, why it would be cringeworthy, I'm not fussed why either. Good job Leica.

[k-hawinkler]

I agree a good outcome.

As I understand it, the policy covers delamination problems.

UliWer had such a problem but also what looked like a scratch, according to Leica not him.

UliWer posted this in the German part of the Forum.

So according to him Leica asked for a payment.

Hopefully Leica reconsiders that case now.

I am sure folks will let us know if there are problems with the details of implementation of the new policy.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[filipelena]

Nice response to the issue which might almost ruined the Leica Digital. Better late than never. Applaud