MarkP Posted April 13, 2015 Share #1 Posted April 13, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LEICA-M4-P-HALF-FRAME-OR-72-18X24-VERY-RARER-CANADIAN-PROTOTYPE-1281-/261841645874?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf6fa7132 Well this is new to me. I didn't know Leica tinkered with the concept of half-frame, let alone the execution of such a camera . Needless to say I won't be forking out over $18000 for it . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 Hi MarkP, Take a look here Half-frame M4-P!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted April 13, 2015 Share #2 Posted April 13, 2015 Leica did make half-frame rangefinders, but not very many at all. Steve Gandy has an interesting view on these on this page. The eBay seller of that item has enough allegedly rare Leicas, including another couple of half-frame or Post cameras to earn skepticism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moritz Posted April 13, 2015 Share #3 Posted April 13, 2015 Leica did make half-frame rangefinders, but not very many at all. Steve Gandy has an interesting view on these on this page. The eBay seller of that item has enough allegedly rare Leicas, including another couple of half-frame or Post cameras to earn skepticism. Hello, i second this. I am skeptic too, while I know this seller for many years offering Leicas no one else has seen before. Best Moritz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 13, 2015 Share #4 Posted April 13, 2015 Hmm, 50.000 USD for a broken Minox is a bit on the steep side as well, even if Marilyn Monroe scratched her initials in it.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted April 13, 2015 Share #5 Posted April 13, 2015 Camera West had an M4-P 18x24mm half frame a while back: http://www.camerawest.com/gallery/ (you will have to click through the slide show to find it). Their copy sold for $23,000 USD... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted April 13, 2015 Share #6 Posted April 13, 2015 I've seen one - a half frame Leica that is, and a stereo body too! Both modified of course and certainly not claimed to be original at all (by their builder and owner). So its quite possible for them to exist and I suspect that they take quite a bit of work to build. Without an exceedingly good provenance such a camera should always be regarded as a modified one in my opinion. What a modified camera is worth is another question and should probably be dictated by the amount of work put into its production but probably isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted April 13, 2015 Share #7 Posted April 13, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) - M4P was never officially made - Items do exist, deriving from indipendent modifications made into or outside the Canadian factory - The seller had personal deep relations with Ontario facility and, seems, access to certain "warehouse" components/items. - The price could be considered even not indecent in absolute terms (I remember an item auctioned at Westlicht for 15 KUS$ around), but no one can assure its originality, because there is not an original half frame M4-P. - Plainly speaking, I'd never buy one... and the "right" price is the price of a M4-P with some work made onto it, losing originality and gaining an oddiity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted April 14, 2015 Share #8 Posted April 14, 2015 I prefer to wait for the next oddity: to say... double frame... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted April 14, 2015 Share #9 Posted April 14, 2015 I prefer to wait for the next oddity: to say... double frame... From memory I think that the stereo body I've seen takes two photos simultaneously on two frames ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted April 14, 2015 Share #10 Posted April 14, 2015 From memory I think that the stereo body I've seen takes two photos simultaneously on two frames ..... You are right, but it's an easy task with two bodies... in this case I hope to see a variation that gives a single frame Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2015 Share #11 Posted April 14, 2015 If you can't afford a real half-frame Leica, perhaps try it with a colorful ltm "modification" from Russia: Fake Russian Leica 72 pdf.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted April 14, 2015 Share #12 Posted April 14, 2015 Pay 20 times as much, get half as big a picture.... Leica's sole production half-frame was the Leica 72, produced 1953-1960 - a factory modification based on the IIIa. About 500 built. They also built the "Postcameras" for the German Post Office - some of which shot 24 x 27 frames instead of 24 x 36. Used to capture readings off meters that tracked telephone usage. Leitz did a lot of fiddling with prototype ideas in their spare time. Witness the experimental "M6" (really more of an "M7", since it included autoexposure) - cobbled together with a lot of R4 bits and pieces, and during the M4-P era, so likely the same time as this half-frame experiment. http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/Leica/Leica-M6/M6-Special/M6-Electronic-1981/index.htm BTW - the Leica Stereo attachment used two side-by-side "periscopes" to put two images side-by-side on one 24 x 36 frame (using a regular body). Basically the lens "saw double". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted April 14, 2015 Share #13 Posted April 14, 2015 ...Pay 20 times as much, get half as big a picture... Seems pretty pointless. For $23 large, I can think of a lot of other M cameras & lenses I'd rather have... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted April 15, 2015 Share #14 Posted April 15, 2015 Why half frame and not crop sensor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted April 15, 2015 Share #15 Posted April 15, 2015 The seller is known to to the collector world as a maker of stuff. She is from California and owned a camera store there. A lot of her stuff remains shrouded in mystery. Steer clear of here stuff with a 10 foot pole. Yes she had a direct connection the the E. Leitz parts when they closed and my understanding she bought or was shipped tons of outdated parts???? But Leica did make some half frame m4p as microscope cameras, I remember seeing some at Ken Hansen in NYC long time ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted April 15, 2015 Share #16 Posted April 15, 2015 .... But Leica did make some half frame m4p as microscope cameras, I remember seeing some at Ken Hansen in NYC long time ago. Interesting info... I didn't know... so can be that some half frame M4P wre indeed made inside the Ontario factory, on special order... that's undoubtly possible... is someway similar to the story of the chrome M4-2s: they were never officially listed, but is generally accepted that Elcan made some on special order... and the Ontario factory didn't keep detailed register about; and this is the problem in terms of value for collectors who chase "specials"... though it can seem a bit ridicolus for normal people (even if Leica passionate), a camera with a documented "pedigree" (to say "delivered from factory <date>, to customer <name>, s/n <number>, notes <chrome... half frame...> ) HAS a value... without this, is just an "out of standard Leica" , and anyone who is disposed to pay a huge premium on this simple fact, is warmly welcome by the seller... : this imho is the case of the half frame we are speaking of : none can certify it is NOT a decently made work made by some good lab 1, 2 or so years ago on a standard M4P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Madureira Posted April 26, 2015 Share #17 Posted April 26, 2015 I remember that some years ago I bought from that said seller from California, this supposed Half Frame MD camera top. Just for fun, (I never think in my cameras in terms of collection or resale value), but hammer tone paint, HALF FRAME, 18X24, and above all, MD instead of the obvious MD-2, made me laugh, and as the asked price was low I didn´t resist. Now, in its shelf, it sleeps in company of other Leica parts and pieces I had collected for a lot of time . Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/243570-half-frame-m4-p/?do=findComment&comment=2805517'>More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted April 27, 2015 Share #18 Posted April 27, 2015 The seller is known to to the collector world as a maker of stuff. She is from California and owned a camera store there. A lot of her stuff remains shrouded in mystery. Steer clear of here stuff with a 10 foot pole. Yes she had a direct connection the the E. Leitz parts when they closed and my understanding she bought or was shipped tons of outdated parts???? But Leica did make some half frame m4p as microscope cameras, I remember seeing some at Ken Hansen in NYC long time ago. But more... much more.. than direct connection .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted April 27, 2015 Share #19 Posted April 27, 2015 I remember that some years ago I bought from that said seller from California, this supposed Half Frame MD camera top. Just for fun, (I never think in my cameras in terms of collection or resale value), but hammer tone paint, HALF FRAME, 18X24, and above all, MD instead of the obvious MD-2, made me laugh, and as the asked price was low I didn´t resist. Now, in its shelf, it sleeps in company of other Leica parts and pieces I had collected for a lot of time . 1 -Half Frame MD.jpg2 -Half Frame - MD .jpg3 - Half Frame - MD.jpg Funny item... and a further evidence that they build several "fantasy" items... with spares and some working... I suspects that those "excessive" engravings ("half frame" with out of standard fonts, "18x24" placed in an odd position, "MD" on a top with angled rewind lever...) convinced them that it wasn't the case to build a rare item onto... ... and sold it as is... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted April 27, 2015 Share #20 Posted April 27, 2015 Said person also was in possession of a pantograph from the midland plant. Engraving is close and looks good. But at times contains spelling errors as said persons ebay posting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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