Summicron 75mm versus CV 75mm-Sean Reid's new review

[xrogers]

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Sean, thank you very much for this review, and even more for the super wide review. Your site is easily worth the money.

 

And please do not tell what you mean in reference to "The Little Prince"! It'll provide a little encouragement for us to read (or reread) the book!

 

Until later,

 

Clyde Rogers

[sean_reid]

I like Erwin's writtings because I learn a lot from them. I like your articles too, due to the same reason.

 

What is your opinion about Geoffrey Crawley's reviews of lenses?

 

Hi Ruben,

 

I haven't read him.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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[sean_reid]

Sean -

 

I for one really enjoy your tests and find them very much on the mark. While there is surely additional information that can come from a different, perhaps more clinical approach, there is nothing quite as good as a point of view, well documented, and clearly stated. Many thanks.

 

And anyone working off "The Little Prince" deserves an additional bit of encouragement - what a lovely transition to suggest. Made my day.

 

Geoff

 

Hi Geoff,

 

Thank you. What an interesting forum this is that I can refer to "The Little Prince" and many people both know the reference and have some sense of how it relates to what I do.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

To add from the perspective of a user of Leica M.

I read the review of of the lenses and purchased the Voiglander 75 based on the following but in no specific order:

 

* The review and hence performance

* Price

* Availability

 

It matters very little if the lens you want is not available in any of the UK outlets . . .

I liked the 75mm so much I just purchased the new Voiglander 25mm f4.0 (based on the reviews) which now comes with a bayonet mount and is rangefinder coupled. Again I am well pleased with the results with the little chance I have had to use it so far. Curiously when mounted my M8 thinks it is a 35mm lens if I set it to detect the lens.

 

George

 

Thanks and glad to hear it. Let me know what you think of the new 25 as I have not yet tested it.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[wparsonsgisnet]

So, why would one subscribe to Sean's review site? I began subscribing at the beginining and offer the following answer:

 

1. Though I live in Boston (where one might expect to be able to find just about any lens), it's impossible to find a dealer who stocks a lot of Leica lenses (dealers have to buy these things, after all). That means I can't try lenses.

 

2. It is possible to get all kinds of information from Sean's reviews:

a. His responses to the lenses being tested,

b. The results of technical comparisons -- of images, not resolution charts -- showing edges of objects, color saturation, gray scaling, and the like,

c. Actual, real, almost touchable images from the lenses, and considering the limitations of reduced jpg's on computer screens it's amazing what can be revealed to the "uncalibrated" eye.

d. Objectivity (you heard it here!). This guy doesn't care that one lens costs $3k and the other $0.3k.

e. Both color and b/w images.

 

3. He will also talk to you by email. Put(s) that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

4. He IS a practicing photographer. Doesn't move you? Go look at his site. His pix of people and architecture are truly astonishing. His architectural pix are some of the best I've seen. [so are the people pix. They capture inner character.]

 

5. I have made many purchases based on his reviews. However, rather than costing me money he's saved me all kinds of dough. The 24mm asph lens, for example, cost me (used) about the same as one of the new 28's that arrived at the same time as the M8. Further, I read what he wrote about the RD-1 and decided not to purchase. He loves the camera, but I decided to wait for the M8.

 

I've posted before that it's the best money I've ever spent on photography.

Let me now say that I really like that he's doing this because I want the info but I don't want to do this myself.

[sean_reid]

It would be a good idea to make a list of people who doesn't like other people. It would allow to introduce a (statistically) significant variable in the valuation of reviews and comments.

 

 

I like you all!

 

Hi Ruben,

 

It can be significant.To answer your question, I have written some article in which I link to Erwin's site as a recommended resource for technical information. I have never criticized him or his writing in my reviews. On this forum, I am one of many who criticized the accuracy of some things he said about the M8 vs. the 5D (based in part on an out of focus M8 picture). He has since withdrawn those comments and pictures from his site. Anyone interested can find threads about that early review here and on other sites.

 

When I was relatively obscure as a reviewer, Erwin was friendly and we corresponded. As I became less obscure, I started to see some subtle, but negative, comments about my work appear here and there on Erwin's site. This last piece he wrote was the most overt and I imagine the comments criticizing my approach will continue and increase in intensity as the popularity of RR increases. I leave it to the individual to draw his or her own conclusions about that.

 

By contrast, there is nothing I have written on my site (or LL or Imaging Resource, etc.) that criticizes Erwin's work.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

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Hi,

 

I ordered my cv75 last Friday and got it this morning, less than a week from California to the Canary Islands, Spain using Express Mail, faster than Fedex when I got my CV15

 

I'll be doing some testing this weekend.

 

One question though.... I think the filter is 43mm, any idea where to find a IR/UV this side. I've been told Leica's one are not available. What other options B+W? where to get it?

 

And, buy the way, popflash is limiting 39mm IR/UV filter to 1 unit order only. Anyone knows where I could order more than one at a time? I am on a waiting list in Spain, and I don't want to wait any longer.

 

Thanks

 

Eric

 

Hi Eric,

 

If you can't get the Leica filter, you should be fine with a 486 on a 75. No need to code it either.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Well he is what he is and some folks are just a threat to his views but that is okay he does have some good info just need to read between the lines sometimes.

 

Hi Guy,

 

I can't see why Erwin would perceive my work as any threat to his own. Two different perspectives should be just that - no more, no less.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Sean's review are useful for their "hands-on" approach, and they really talk to the use of the lens. Irwin's serve a different purpose, totally. We are lucky to have both.

 

That's true, Erwin's reviews do serve a purpose and that purpose is somewhat different from my own, which is largely pragmatic. For example, Erwin doesn't like comparisons between lenses of different maximum apertures. I can understand that theoretically but a real photographer may well be deciding between, for example, the Leica 75/2 and the CV 75/2.5. Different max apertures or not, one often needs to spend real money to get a real (not theoretical lens) and make real pictures. As such, pragmatism dictates that sometimes lenses with different max. apertures be compared. It is just a reality of lens shopping that has little to do with academic comparisons, per se.

 

As Erwin has pointed out, I'm apparently the Donald Duck of lens reviewers. At least he didn't call me Goofy although he seems to think the reviews are rather "Mickey Mouse". <G>

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Sean Reviews are very handy. If you assume his opinion may be partial, well, dead simple, you just don't read the text and you can just look at the pics so you make your own opinion.

Eric

 

Right! That's exactly true. I try to provide extensive illustrations (nearly 70 in the ultra-wides review) so that readers can come to their own conclusions if desired. I also, against convention, post all pictures as level 9 JPEGs so as to minimize quality loss.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

Sean, thank you very much for this review, and even more for the super wide review. Your site is easily worth the money.

 

And please do not tell what you mean in reference to "The Little Prince"! It'll provide a little encouragement for us to read (or reread) the book!

 

Until later,

 

Clyde Rogers

 

 

That's a good idea. For those who are interested, lets read or re-read that book and then discuss its implications for photography and reviewing. I'm not joking and I'm fully aware that some will ridicule any reviewer who suggests that "The Little Prince" has been a prime influence in his reviewing approach.

 

Let's maybe re-visit this idea in a few days after people have read/reread. I think the book is essential reading for serious photographers, especially those who have accidentally lost their way with respect to what matters most in photography. There's an idea for a new article now percolating.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

So, why would one subscribe to Sean's review site? I began subscribing at the beginining and offer the following answer:

 

1. Though I live in Boston (where one might expect to be able to find just about any lens), it's impossible to find a dealer who stocks a lot of Leica lenses (dealers have to buy these things, after all). That means I can't try lenses.

 

2. It is possible to get all kinds of information from Sean's reviews:

a. His responses to the lenses being tested,

b. The results of technical comparisons -- of images, not resolution charts -- showing edges of objects, color saturation, gray scaling, and the like,

c. Actual, real, almost touchable images from the lenses, and considering the limitations of reduced jpg's on computer screens it's amazing what can be revealed to the "uncalibrated" eye.

d. Objectivity (you heard it here!). This guy doesn't care that one lens costs $3k and the other $0.3k.

e. Both color and b/w images.

 

3. He will also talk to you by email. Put(s) that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

4. He IS a practicing photographer. Doesn't move you? Go look at his site. His pix of people and architecture are truly astonishing. His architectural pix are some of the best I've seen. [so are the people pix. They capture inner character.]

 

5. I have made many purchases based on his reviews. However, rather than costing me money he's saved me all kinds of dough. The 24mm asph lens, for example, cost me (used) about the same as one of the new 28's that arrived at the same time as the M8. Further, I read what he wrote about the RD-1 and decided not to purchase. He loves the camera, but I decided to wait for the M8.

 

I've posted before that it's the best money I've ever spent on photography.

Let me now say that I really like that he's doing this because I want the info but I don't want to do this myself.

 

Wow...thanks Bill.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[wparsonsgisnet]

... all pictures as level 9 JPEGs so as to minimize quality loss...

 

Sean, I had not heard this term before, so looked it up. Am I correct in thinking that you refer to jpeg's of maximum resolution level?

 

Secondly, are you producing these in C1 (pro, in your case)?

[george_b]

Thanks and glad to hear it. Let me know what you think of the new 25 as I have not yet tested it.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

I have only made a few exposures so and am very happy with it. Would you like me to mail a couple so you can see the results? What is the best address or via your site? RAW / .psd / .tiff / .jpeg?

 

George

[hankg]

That's true, Erwin's reviews do serve a purpose and that purpose is somewhat different from my own, which is largely pragmatic.

 

The technical aspects of a lens review can be fascinating but I think a good review that included details of this sort of in depth technical information should be able to illustrate the effects of these measurements with actual photographs. Ortherwise you must take everything the reviewer says on faith. As has been said you can ignore Seans opinions and form your own based on the supplied material.

 

I'd be fascinated to read some technical/optical engineering background about why the various lenses do what they do in the images Sean's reviews provide. But reading in review after review on Irwins site that one lens has better micro contrast and a crisper delineation of detail doesn't really tell me much about how that lens will perform in the real world. Do you need to have the camera on a tripod or shoot at speeds above 500ths to see the difference? Will anyone be able to pick it out in a 8 x 10 print or 2 page spread CMYK ad. Can you show me an example of how they compare? Of what clarity and sharp delinieation of microcontrast looks like compared to the other lens fuzzy rendering? Something that might impress an optical engineer who understands the engineering and manufacturing difficulty in balancing various lens aberations and corrections may not be all that important to a photographer.

 

Given the choice between the 2 'styles' I'll take Sean's as his testing essentially mimics what a photographer would himself do to test a lens. In the end the proof is where the rubber meets the road -once you form an opinion based on actual photographs and usage - all the charts in the world don't matter.

[sean_reid]

Sean, I had not heard this term before, so looked it up. Am I correct in thinking that you refer to jpeg's of maximum resolution level?

 

Secondly, are you producing these in C1 (pro, in your case)?

 

Hi Bill,

 

The more one compresses a JPEG, the smaller its file size but, also, the more quality loss there is. Some find that loss negligible but I think that its relevant for the work I do. I've found that level 9 preserves quality very well, max is 12.

 

Yes, C1 Pro unless the camera reviewed is not supported. I usually mention workflow in the articles.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

I have only made a few exposures so and am very happy with it. Would you like me to mail a couple so you can see the results? What is the best address or via your site? RAW / .psd / .tiff / .jpeg?

 

George

 

Hi George,

 

I'll have a review copy as soon as there's time to look at it but, yes, please e-mail me (sreid at sover dot net).

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Hi Guy,

 

I can't see why Erwin would perceive my work as any threat to his own. Two different perspectives should be just that - no more, no less.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Well you would think that but my e-mail from him awhile ago it was real obvious that i was a threat to him, so it does go deeper sometimes than we think. Anyway inmaterial and really at the end of the day is meaningless as long as folks get a balance than that is what counts

[carstenw]

Hi Geoff,

 

Thank you. What an interesting forum this is that I can refer to "The Little Prince" and many people both know the reference and have some sense of how it relates to what I do.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

I use this book to learn other languages I do need to have a slight feel for the language, but I started reading it (with a dictionary in hand) when I was learning French, while still living in Montréal. Then I started reading it again (with a German dictionary in hand) when I moved to Berlin. The pattern is usually the same: on the first pages, I use the dictionary about 30 times. On the last few, about 3-5 times. Once I have finished with The Little Prince, I move on to The Alchemist. After that, I buy trash novels like The Bourne Identity, or one of the Harry Potter series (neither of which I would read in English). The final stage is to start subscribing to native magazines, like photo magazines or computer graphics periodicals (my daytime job).

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[tom0511]

I agree that one shouldn't make purchase decisions based solely on reviews. There's no way that any one review can possibly cover the myriad of subjects, focus distances, lighting variations, etc. that exist in photography and in the world. No matter how extensive a review is, it can never cover everything. In fact, until one has a given camera or lens in his or her hands, everything is hypothesis. We can never know for sure what tools will work best for us until we use them ourselves.

 

So what's the value in a good review? It can help one to discover which cameras, lenses, etc. might (for a given individual) merit further investigation. It may also bring one to consider aspects that weren't considered before -- ideas that had not yet come to one. So, its just a piece of the puzzle. I never, in my reviews, tell people what they should buy, I just try to give them an accurate picture (to the best of my abilities) of a given thing as I experience it.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

I totally agree with your words and would like to repeat that your reviews are-for me- the most valuable of all reviews I have seen so far.

For me well worth the money and fun to read, a very good starting point for my lens decisions.

Regards, Tom