algrove Posted April 1, 2015 Share #21 Posted April 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) OP Don't believe all this mumbo jumbo about SD cards and the like. It is simply a problem that Leica cannot yet fix. I was one of the first to report this about 2 years ago and have sent many M240 to Leica for service and it still happens even after shutter replacements and other fixes which they do not say what they were. It was suggested by some here that defective batteries might be the issue so I sent in batteries and Leica confirmed there were no issues with my batteries. Well, I can tell you there are currently no fixes. I probably use the M240 with EVF more than others due to eyesight issues and it comes after using M+EVF with LV (that's why I use the EVF) more than I would like. After shutter replacements it seemed to happen less often, but then I changed to the M-P for larger buffer size. With the M-P it did not happen for many frames, but then it came back not requiring battery removal, just off and back on. But of late it has begun to occur more often even on the new M-P cameras where I get a solid red read light and battery removal is the only option. Simply put, Leica charges too much for their gear that has serious issues along these lines where my other gear never locks up with LV and 51MP sensors shooting the same way I shoot my Leicas in landscape photography. Sadly, it now happens during street photography with my M-P's where one does not have static subject matter like in landscape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 1, 2015 Posted April 1, 2015 Hi algrove, Take a look here M-P 240 + EVF + frozen = Not Impressed. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted April 1, 2015 Share #22 Posted April 1, 2015 Well, to me it doesn't make logical sense to put crap cards in "one of the world's most expensive cameras". There really are not many crap cards, as you put it. Stick with a mainstream manufacturer, know how to detect counterfeits and be happy. Or spend too much and get no improvement relative to the price - all you have to lose is everything. The M, so far, has a low performance SD card host controller, and/or inferior onboard firmware. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 1, 2015 Share #23 Posted April 1, 2015 So it would be OK for cameras to have problems if Leica charged less? OP Don't believe all this mumbo jumbo about SD cards and the like. It is simply a problem that Leica cannot yet fix. I was one of the first to report this about 2 years ago and have sent many M240 to Leica for service and it still happens even after shutter replacements and other fixes which they do not say what they were. It was suggested by some here that defective batteries might be the issue so I sent in batteries and Leica confirmed there were no issues with my batteries. Well, I can tell you there are currently no fixes. I probably use the M240 with EVF more than others due to eyesight issues and it comes after using M+EVF with LV (that's why I use the EVF) more than I would like. After shutter replacements it seemed to happen less often, but then I changed to the M-P for larger buffer size. With the M-P it did not happen for many frames, but then it came back not requiring battery removal, just off and back on. But of late it has begun to occur more often even on the new M-P cameras where I get a solid red read light and battery removal is the only option. Simply put, Leica charges too much for their gear that has serious issues along these lines where my other gear never locks up with LV and 51MP sensors shooting the same way I shoot my Leicas in landscape photography. Sadly, it now happens during street photography with my M-P's where one does not have static subject matter like in landscape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted April 2, 2015 Share #24 Posted April 2, 2015 Here you go twisting things again to suit yourself. IT IS AN ONGOING PROBLEM which has not been solved even with the M-P based on my experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted April 2, 2015 Share #25 Posted April 2, 2015 Maybe, but I have an M-P, bought when it was first released and I have never had a problem, so my experience is very different from yours... I use the same card recommended by Thorsten Overgaard which has proved to be fast and reliable, the camera has been used all over the world, UK, the Far East including the Malaysia interior and even a resort (Pangkor Laut) and am about to go to Brazil tomorrow... so in all weather conditions... And yes, I use an EVF reasonably often and don't particularly think about how I remove it... sometimes the camera is switched off, sometimes it is switched on... Never worried about it and have never had an issue with 'freezing'. As far as I am concerned, my experience is the camera is that it is absolutely stable and reliable... and I don't treat it particularly carefully... and thats kind of why I bought it in the first place... I thought it would simple and essentially bullet proof - and so far that has proved to be the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted April 2, 2015 Share #26 Posted April 2, 2015 Here you go twisting things again to suit yourself. IT IS AN ONGOING PROBLEM which has not been solved even with the M-P based on my experience. If everybody were having this problem consistently I would agree with you but I think it is a bit more complicated. There seem to be many who do not experience lock-ups. Including me, after just one lockup with the first release of the firmware and none thereafter for alomost two years. So for me it was "solved". Like you, I use the EVF a lot, for landscapes, wide angles, for 90 and 135mm, and I do "walk around" too (though rarely use the EVF for that). Maybe it is because I have a slow and deliberate way of working? (the one time I had a lockup I was running a series of bracketed shots, which leads me to believe that the buffer had something to do with this). I have an early issue M(240) and a more recent M-P and use a Leica (not Olympus) EVF (which I bought before I knew the Oly was the same). All my lenses are coded. I almost never work in really hot conditions. I am not sure whether anyone has done this before but wouldn't it be useful to compile some data on the conditions under which the camera locks? I am just not sure what the variables would be but there can't be so many that it couldn't be figured out and then fixed if one set of conditions consistently causes lock ups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted April 2, 2015 Share #27 Posted April 2, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, I think IMHO that there is an issue with these cameras. Probably not on every individual camera, maybe different electronics (suppliers) do not quite gel with each other! whatever, I do not doubt some owners have issues. I know that my Safari had issues out of the box (vignetting & Info button faulty) QC is not up to what one would expect on a high ticket item.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted April 2, 2015 Share #28 Posted April 2, 2015 Well, I think IMHO that there is an issue with these cameras. Probably not on every individual camera, maybe different electronics (suppliers) do not quite gel with each other!whatever, I do not doubt some owners have issues. I know that my Safari had issues out of the box (vignetting & Info button faulty) QC is not up to what one would expect on a high ticket item.. QC is done by sampling; whining on the Internet is also a sample but very heavily biased. Neither you nor anybody else has any grounds to expect that QC could be better - we don't have the stats. If anyone could reliably reproduce the freeze on more than one M then I'm sure a fix could be found. My best bet would be for Leica to issue our dear friend Algrove with a debug version of the firmware though I suspect it is a timing issue which tracing would interfere with. More eyeballs on the source code would certainly help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted April 4, 2015 Share #29 Posted April 4, 2015 Don't believe all this mumbo jumbo about SD cards and the like. It is simply a problem that Leica cannot yet fix..Exactly ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted April 4, 2015 Share #30 Posted April 4, 2015 So it would be OK for cameras to have problems if Leica charged less?an Olympus cost 1000€ and works fineIt will be my last M if they go on that way, and I am not the only one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 4, 2015 Share #31 Posted April 4, 2015 That is not a surprise. The surprise always was that you bought into a rangefinder system that does not suit you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted April 4, 2015 Share #32 Posted April 4, 2015 That is not a surprise. The surprise always was that you bought into a rangefinder system that does not suit you.Jaapv I know exactly my needsactually the M240 suits maybe 1% pro users it's seems than in your mind a M is a rangefinder and only a rangefinder and that's all, you will be very disappointed in the future I guess Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted April 4, 2015 Share #33 Posted April 4, 2015 OP Don't believe all this mumbo jumbo about SD cards and the like. It is simply a problem that Leica cannot yet fix. All I can tell you is that since swapping a Sandisk for a Lexar SD Card and formatting it with Sd card formatter, I've gone from one lock up every 50 or so shots, to absolutely zero. Other manufacturers like Canon etc don't have such issues with SD cards and take whatever you put in it without any complaints. It is still an issue Leica can't fix and should have been able to by now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Posted April 4, 2015 Share #34 Posted April 4, 2015 Exactly ! +1 Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Pop Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share #35 Posted April 5, 2015 Thanks everyone; just to clarify I was in fact using the card Thorsten recommends, the Sandisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s 64GB card. And I had the solid red light when it hung. I've only had that on my M-P once before. Battery removal, vs. any other strategy, is all that solved it. Clearly there's an ongoing issue. The fact that there's so much variability in the discussion about this, i.e.. "I've had no problems" to "I've had multiple shutters replaced" etc is in fact a QC issue. While it's true that this forum may be a microcosm of the total, the M itself isn't a massive sales camera so I think it's fairly representative of the real users. It's also true that all computerized devices, from my iMac to iPhone, hang at times and need to be rebooted - I'm not unreasonable with these things, or my expectations. And I'm a dedicated rangefinder user. Leica DOES need to do more regular investigation into these 'ghost in the machine' occurrences and bring some stability through changes, whether it's revisions and/or firmware. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted April 5, 2015 Share #36 Posted April 5, 2015 Thanks everyone; just to clarify I was in fact using the card Thorsten recommends, the Sandisk Extreme Pro 95 MB/s 64GB card The Sandisk Card I was using was a Sandisk Extreme 80MB/s 32GB card. Which is now sitting in the Canon 5D Mark III as it has no issues with it. I'm currently using a Lexar 64GB SDXC Memory Card Platinum II x200 in the M240, which is giving no lock up issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted April 5, 2015 Share #37 Posted April 5, 2015 Well I'd not had a lockup with my M240 for ages - probably only two or three times since I updated the firmware, and always with the EVF fitted. So rare that I really wouldn't bother complaining, my MBP and iPhone need a restart up about as infrequently as this. Last night I was out shooting the M240, EVF, 1.0 Noctilux and Monopod. The f#@*ing thing froze on me three times with the 'sustained red light of death'. Normally I wouldn't have minded, it only takes a moment to pop the bottom plate and battery and all is well BUT having to remove the screw-in monopod plate is very annoying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 5, 2015 Share #38 Posted April 5, 2015 This problem is related to mode of usage It is related to SD card type ..... ..... but it is all due to inadequate processing power, bus bandwidth and poorly written firmware. The more things you try to get this camera to do at once (display on evf, write to card and change menu items/settings etc.) the more potential there is for it to get stuck in a software loop and sulk until reset. Cards contain processors and memory of varying quality and speeds and mis-match with what is going on in the camera at the time can provoke issues. Leica firmware/hardware seems abnormally sensitive to these factors. The problem is multifactorial but I am sure has the same fundamental issue at it's heart. My few solitary lock-ups (3 in 2 bodies over 3 years) have been when I have been rapidly fiddling with camera settings while it is writing data to the card and the EVF is on..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted April 5, 2015 Share #39 Posted April 5, 2015 The problem is multifactorial but I am sure has the same fundamental issue at it's heart. My few solitary lock-ups (3 in 2 bodies over 3 years) have been when I have been rapidly fiddling with camera settings while it is writing data to the card and the EVF is on..... I suspect you're right. I actually expected it be able to process more than one thing at once Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted April 5, 2015 Share #40 Posted April 5, 2015 Just an observation which may be of some relevance to some cases of lock-up described earlier in this thread: the instructions for the EVF-2 state clearly that the camera should be switched off before attaching or removing the viewfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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