Mornnb Posted April 9, 2015 Share #61 Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) not at all ! it was not the main reason, and you will see in the next M, Leica knows that rangefinder has no future for a company Without the Rangefinder, Leica has less differentiation. The Rangefinder is only going to become more important as competition increases. Compared to the Sony A7, the Leica is the only full frame mirrorless than offers an optical viewfinder and the only camera which offers a Rangefinder. and Sony Alpha will be soon a complete system with Zeiss AF lenses Sony's lenses are going to continue to be bulky and massive. They don't have the ability to ask people pay $4000 for designs that minimise aberrations in each element, they need to take the cheaper additive approach of adding additional elements to fix aberrations. The other factor is that they need to fit in a lot of equipment for autofocus and electronic aperture. This is just a repeat of history, it sounds like a lot like film SLRs vs Rangefinders in the 60s. The M will continue to have advantages and Leica would be foolish to throw them away just because the competition is doing something different. If Leica wants to make a direct competitor to the Sony A7, they are better off making an enlarged Leica T then compromising what makes the M a success. Edited April 9, 2015 by Mornnb 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 9, 2015 Posted April 9, 2015 Hi Mornnb, Take a look here M-P 240 + EVF + frozen = Not Impressed. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jmahto Posted April 9, 2015 Share #62 Posted April 9, 2015 Criticizing M for EVF use is similar to criticizing latest Canikon DSLR for not having good focusing screen for manual focus lenses. It doesn't make Canikon less at what they do best... same with M. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted April 10, 2015 Share #63 Posted April 10, 2015 Without the Rangefinder, Leica has less differentiation. The Rangefinder is only going to become more important as competition increases. Compared to the Sony A7, the Leica is the only full frame mirrorless than offers an optical viewfinder and the only camera which offers a Rangefinder.The contrary will happen, what makes today the M system is the small fast and very good lenses Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted April 10, 2015 Share #64 Posted April 10, 2015 not at all ! it was not the main reason, and you will see in the next M, Leica knows that rangefinder has no future for a company and Sony Alpha will be soon a complete system with Zeiss AF lenses Seriously? The RF is what makes the M such a great camera. I choose exactly where I want the focus. Name one other system that gives such control to the photographer of where to precisely and accurately place the plane and DOF of focus. Rick 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirke Posted April 10, 2015 Share #65 Posted April 10, 2015 Seriously? The RF is what makes the M such a great camera. body and lenses are 2 different things, for me and many users the M is only a not so good and expensive camera to put M lenses on Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted April 10, 2015 Share #66 Posted April 10, 2015 body and lenses are 2 different things, for me and many users the M is only a not so good and expensive camera to put M lenses on But, they are not two different things. They are a system. The lenses are designed for the RF. And, the camera is actually a very good camera, I get better files from it than anything else I've used. What camera do you feel is so much better? Rick 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted April 10, 2015 Share #67 Posted April 10, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) body and lenses are 2 different things, for me and many users the M is only a not so good and expensive camera to put M lenses on Do you actually own an M camera? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornnb Posted April 11, 2015 Share #68 Posted April 11, 2015 body and lenses are 2 different things, for me and many users the M is only a not so good and expensive camera to put M lenses on If you don't care about the Rangefinder or an OVF, why did you choose a Leica M over a Sony A7? It's cheaper, has a better EVF... although Leica's sensors work with Leica lenses better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carduelis Posted April 12, 2015 Share #69 Posted April 12, 2015 I do not feel that you can defend the Leica M because it is first and foremost a Rangefinder camera and works well in that mode. If the camera is additionally offering an EVF mode with the convenience of not having to buy finders for the wider lenses and helping to deal with focus shift, then it really ought to work without the intermittent issues described. I bought the Leica M, not on the basis of it being a Rangefinder camera, but for offering a full frame platform for my Leica M lenses which I really rate. I had entered Leica world from having a Ricoh GXR and A12 M mount and have preferred to use EVFs and focus aids when necessary. Perhaps I ought to explore the Rangefinder experience more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 12, 2015 Share #70 Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) then it really ought to work without the intermittent issues described. ...... well I have 2 bodies and between the a total of 3 years of use, with probably the evf on half of the time producing 30k+ images ........... and it has happened 3 times. even as a grouchy old fart I am not going to throw my dolly out of the pram because of this terrible and unacceptably high failure rate sure, some people seem to be blessed with golden hands and seem to make this happen regularly........ but for the vast majority of M users it is a non-issue in normal usage. Edited April 12, 2015 by thighslapper 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted April 12, 2015 Share #71 Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) Watch out Rick. There is at least one other system I know of at this moment. Just for a change I took my Pentax 645Z out on the street which is unusual since I manily use it for landscape photography. I used a 28mm eqyuivalent lens (the 645A 35/3.5) which is a MF lens. The AF lenses can be used in MF with a AF/MF lens switch. So is what I find so nice with this system is that when focusing I get a small red square, if in spot focus mode. or a small red dot, if on matrix focus mode. and a beep if sound turned on showing excatly where my plane of focus is located. This same system also works with non-Pentax lenses such as with my Hasselblad V Zeiss lenses. Edited April 12, 2015 by algrove Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carduelis Posted April 12, 2015 Share #72 Posted April 12, 2015 ...... well I have 2 bodies and between the a total of 3 years of use, with probably the evf on half of the time producing 30k+ images ........... and it has happened 3 times. even as a grouchy old fart I am not going to throw my dolly out of the pram because of this terrible and unacceptably high failure rate sure, some people seem to be blessed with golden hands and seem to make this happen regularly........ but for the vast majority of M users it is a non-issue in normal usage. Well I guess you are fortunate that it has occurred so few times and so you have no real cause to complain. Although I treat my camera carefully, I estimate I get lock ups about 1 in 10 times I switch it on in terms of a working average. That IMO is too high a rate. As I enjoy using the camera when everything is hunky dory, I will persevere with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 12, 2015 Share #73 Posted April 12, 2015 However, after Leica fixed the temperature lockup bug, my camera does work as intended, both with and without EVF. I do not feel that you can defend the Leica M because it is first and foremost a Rangefinder camera and works well in that mode. If the camera is additionally offering an EVF mode with the convenience of not having to buy finders for the wider lenses and helping to deal with focus shift, then it really ought to work without the intermittent issues described. I bought the Leica M, not on the basis of it being a Rangefinder camera, but for offering a full frame platform for my Leica M lenses which I really rate. I had entered Leica world from having a Ricoh GXR and A12 M mount and have preferred to use EVFs and focus aids when necessary. Perhaps I ought to explore the Rangefinder experience more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carduelis Posted April 12, 2015 Share #74 Posted April 12, 2015 However, after Leica fixed the temperature lockup bug, my camera does work as intended, both with and without EVF. Jaap, I updated the firmware to version 2.0.1.7 on my camera before going on holiday to Portugal recently. This firmware version includes the above fix. I think I had about three lockups from repeated usage over a four day period whilst there and I feel that the situation has improved particularly as I did not experience any dull/dark EVF viewing issues that I have reported before. I like the experience of using the camera with my M lenses and am more than satisfied with the images it produces; I really want to keep it for the long haul. I intend to try using a Lexar card to see if I can improve the situation even more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 12, 2015 Share #75 Posted April 12, 2015 Well, I guess I have been just plain lucky for once. My M240 is a solid performer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmolinski Posted April 12, 2015 Share #76 Posted April 12, 2015 It is definitely the camera. I have my camera with the same issue. It comes and goes from time to time. Luckily when I pull out the battery it restarts working. Independent from any SD card. I tried quite a lot and as I said I comes and goes... It's a Lieca issue not a card issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 12, 2015 Share #77 Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) Well I guess you are fortunate that it has occurred so few times and so you have no real cause to complain. Although I treat my camera carefully, I estimate I get lock ups about 1 in 10 times I switch it on in terms of a working average. That IMO is too high a rate. As I enjoy using the camera when everything is hunky dory, I will persevere with it. If it was happening that often I would insist on Leica at the very least looking at it (and it will probably come back with the electronics replaced) ...... and if it was fairly new replacing it ......... It is obvious from posts on this (and other issues) over the last few years that not all Leicas are born equal ....... some of us get reliable speedy ones ..... and an unlucky few get sluggardly ditherers .... Edited April 12, 2015 by thighslapper 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carduelis Posted April 13, 2015 Share #78 Posted April 13, 2015 It is obvious from posts on this (and other issues) over the last few years that not all Leicas are born equal ....... some of us get reliable speedy ones ..... and an unlucky few get sluggardly ditherers .... If I buy a Leica camera in future, perhaps I should give you the money and you can go and buy it for me !! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 13, 2015 Share #79 Posted April 13, 2015 my luck will run out sooner or later........ I've been very luck with bodies ...... but lenses ..... well there's another story .... 3x 50/1.4's on the trot that misfocussed ...... a new 18/3.8 stuck permanently wide open ..... poorly calibrated 90/2 and 75/2 (which went back twice) ....... zeiss 35/1.4 that backfocussed by miles ...... errr .... I could go on. If I was a horse I don't think I'd be backing me ....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted May 11, 2015 Share #80 Posted May 11, 2015 I have had to lock up issue in the past on my M 240 only when using the EVF. It did not happen extremely often but because I was using a tripod I would have to remove my really right stuff baseplate and remove the battery to fix the problem which makes it pretty inconvenient. Just this week I purchased a new MP 240 and I've experienced more lock up issues than usual. Just this week I purchased a new MP 240 and I've experienced more lock up issues than usual. The EVF Will also go completely White about half of the time when it locks up. This is the same EVF that I used on my M 240 and I never had the white issue come up before. Has anyone else had the white issue? i am using SanDisk Extreme Pro 32gb 95mb cards. i'm going to try Sd card Formatter and also try some different cards and I will report back with my findings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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