CheshireCat Posted February 15, 2015 Share #21  Posted February 15, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) The 90mm Elmarit-M is one of the Leica's superb character lenses  What do you find so special about this lens (version 11807) ?  The lens rendering is clinical, and the only "special character" is its arguable color rendering. It also tends to blow highlights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Hi CheshireCat, Take a look here 90 2.5 Summarit vs. 90 2.8 Elmarit ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pgk Posted February 15, 2015 Share #22  Posted February 15, 2015 What do you find so special about this lens (version 11807) ? The lens rendering is clinical, and the only "special character" is its arguable color rendering. It also tends to blow highlights. If I may.... its a 'typical' Mandler design. Wide open its good but not superb by current standards, at mid-apertures it has a smoothness of tonal transition which is different from the current aspheric lenses and oh so pleasant. Colour rendering and blown highlights are down to exposure and post processing..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carduelis Posted February 15, 2015 Share #23 Â Posted February 15, 2015 My "thin" T-E has no fungus issue but flares much more than my latest Elmarit. Great little lens though. Was always in my bag since the eighties. I prefer the Macro-Elmar now but i miss the faster aperture of the T-E. Â Fully agree about the "thin" T-E, though I bought it used without a hood. How much does the hood alleviate the flare? Might consider buying a used one. Â Just wish Leica would bring out an updated "thin" T-E with similar weight and improved performance particularly against flare. Â Lastly, I wonder if they could develop an equivalent "thin" T-E at 135 mm/f4 weighing about 300 g which would be easy to handhold whilst focusing. If they did, then I would be at the front of the queue for one !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted February 15, 2015 Share #24  Posted February 15, 2015 [The Elmarit] wide open its good but not superb by current standards  I might have had an unusually good copy, but it was amazingly sharp wide open. I could not feel the "Mandler character" at all, probably because of the small maximum aperture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 15, 2015 Share #25 Â Posted February 15, 2015 [...] How much does the hood alleviate the flare? [...] Significantly so when light sources are outside the frame provided the hood is as efficient as the regular 11250 screw-in rubber hood or, better so, the 12575 clip-on metal hood which can be reversed on the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted February 15, 2015 Share #26 Â Posted February 15, 2015 I might have had an unusually good copy, but it was amazingly sharp wide open.I could not feel the "Mandler character" at all, probably because of the small maximum aperture. Wide open there is a very small amount of chroma (easily dealt with in PS). at mid apertures the smoothnes of tonality is 'typical Mandler' - the Elmarit-M shares this with lenses such as the 80/1.4R, which in my experience also produces wonderfully smooth tonality stopped down, and the 50/1.4 pre-aspheric - in the later's case the aspheric is better wide open but does not have the subtle tonal smoothness of the pre-aspheric at mid apertures. We are talking nuances here though I should state and I only notice these subtleties in large (20" x 16") prints which I have from all these lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 16, 2015 Share #27 Â Posted February 16, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) It also tends to blow highlights. Â Lol, I thought I'd heard every lame excuse under the sun from photographers blaming their equipment but this one beats the lot! Â Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted February 16, 2015 Share #28 Â Posted February 16, 2015 Lol, I thought I'd heard every lame excuse under the sun from photographers blaming their equipment but this one beats the lot! Â This is the typical denigrating reply on this forum, when one criticizes a Leica product. Â Have fun with your "superb Mandler character" lens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted February 16, 2015 Share #29 Â Posted February 16, 2015 Lenses don't blow highlights. Photographers blow highlights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted February 18, 2015 Share #30 Â Posted February 18, 2015 Lenses don't blow highlights. Photographers blow highlights. Â That is like saying: F1 cars don't blow engines. Pilots blow engines The problem here is that there is quite a difference between engines. Â The Elmarit is a high-contrast lens, regardless of what some users say here. Unlike more modern high-contrast lenses (such as the 35 Lux), the lens requires even more sensor dynamic range to render details in both shadows and highlights. I suspect that both the blown highlights (using the same exposure time) and the dull colors are caused by the lens coating, originally designed for film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 18, 2015 Share #31 Â Posted February 18, 2015 Are you sure your lens doesn't need a CLA? The latest Elmarit 90/2.8 is certainly a contrasty lens but less so than more modern lenses like Summicron 90/2 apo. As far as my sample is concerned it produces vivid images and does not cause more DR issues than other Mandler lenses from the same generation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 18, 2015 Share #32 Â Posted February 18, 2015 The Elmarit-M is not a high contrast lens, that is the whole point of what people are trying to tell you. You don't get a super smooth transition of tone with high contrast lenses in the sense that you are using 'high contrast' (that it blows highlights). Who has ever heard of Mandler lenses being described as 'high contrast' such that it's a problem? Â I suppose the problem you have with the Elmarit-M could be caused by any one of many things, such as camera settings etc. But what a lot of people forget with a tele lens on an M style body that has a light meter is that the metering area becomes a significant part of the imaging area, and this can lead to an 'on/off' situation where it is either reading shadow, or highlight, but not a true average. Of course it depends on the situation and the ambient light, but you can get a rough check by switching to the 135mm frame lines and more or less this is the metering area. Â Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted February 18, 2015 Share #33 Â Posted February 18, 2015 The Elmarit-M is not a high contrast lens, that is the whole point of what people are trying to tell you. Â Just checked Erwin Puts' description of the Elmarit-M and he says that "the overall contrast is high to very high". Puts is usually more reliable than most people in this forum. Â But I understand you. In fact, when comparing this lens to a Zeiss 100 MP, at first I also thought the Elmarit had a lower contrast ! But I was examining a portion of the image containing mid to high tones. They were brighter than in the Zeiss shot, which gave the illusion of a smoother transition of tones and lower contrast. I didn't realize this until I took a color chart and compared the Elmarit to a Zeiss APO Sonnar 135: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/317424-elmarit-m-90-11807-vs-zeiss.html#post2614350 If you check the B&W gradient at the bottom of the chart, you will clearly see how the overall contrast of the Elmarit is higher than the Zeiss, and how the Elmarit tends to blow highlights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted February 18, 2015 Share #34 Â Posted February 18, 2015 Are you sure your lens doesn't need a CLA? Â Pretty much sure. The lens was purchased second hand, but it was in excellent conditions. It had very high performance apart from the contrast and color issues (photos on the Internet didn't look any better than mine). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 18, 2015 Share #35 Â Posted February 18, 2015 Beware of second hand samples. Mine had focussing issues on digital Ms but is now spot on after a good CLA. Nothing to do with DR though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted February 18, 2015 Share #36  Posted February 18, 2015 what a lot of people forget with a tele lens on an M style body that has a light meter is that the metering area becomes a significant part of the imaging area, and this can lead to an 'on/off' situation where it is either reading shadow, or highlight, but not a true average.  I know what you are getting at but the first part of your statement cannot be true – the metering area (the white spot or strip on the shutter curtains) is always the same proportion of the 35mm imaging area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 18, 2015 Share #37  Posted February 18, 2015 I know what you are getting at but the first part of your statement cannot be true – the metering area (the white spot or strip on the shutter curtains) is always the same proportion of the 35mm imaging area.  If it keeps the same proportion, the ratio, it has to get bigger or smaller depending on the lens used. How does it maintain the ratio between a 28mm lens and 135mm lens for instance?  Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 18, 2015 Share #38 Â Posted February 18, 2015 Popflash has a nice Elmarit for sale. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted February 18, 2015 Share #39  Posted February 18, 2015 If it keeps the same proportion, the ratio, it has to get bigger or smaller depending on the lens used. How does it maintain the ratio between a 28mm lens and 135mm lens for instance? Steve  The white area on the shutter curtain is where the measuring takes place. Obviously, its size remains fixed w/r to the whole frame and remains wholly independent of the focal length. The M does the same in "classic" mode.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/240674-90-25-summarit-vs-90-28-elmarit/?do=findComment&comment=2766982'>More sharing options...
wattsy Posted February 18, 2015 Share #40 Â Posted February 18, 2015 If it keeps the same proportion, the ratio, it has to get bigger or smaller depending on the lens used. Â But it doesn't get bigger or smaller. The light is measured off the spot on the curtain which is always the same proportion of the 35mm imaging area, irrespective of the lens on the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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