Geolux Posted February 3, 2015 Share #1 Â Posted February 3, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello: Â I own a 90mm f/2.2 Thambar lens, complete, in very fine condition, and also a 50mm f/1.0 Noctilux, in like new condition - almost unused. Â I am considering selling one or the other, or perhaps both and purchase a 50mm APO Summicron to go with the M-240. Â My current 50mm lens of choice is an ordinary f/2 Summicron about 20 years old. I also have a 50mm Summilux about the same vintage. I have had much fun over the years using the Thambar for everything from landscapes to portraits. Â I am not anxious to throw away money on an expensive lens, even though I could get enough money by selling the two lenses, and that brings me to the following questions: Â 1. Will I regret selling these lenses? 2. Is the 50 APO Summicron likely to hold its value in the long run, even after the next generation of the newest and latest dazzling lenses arrive, and is there any compelling reason why the APO Summicron would be preferred over what I have? 3. I am no youngster, and my eyes are not as good as when I was a teenager. Am I likely to even notice a difference in my photographic efforts when using a 50mm APO as compared to the old 50 mm Summicron or Summilux? 4. Should I keep what I have and just send the old Summicron to Leitz for a CLA? Â Your opinions will be considered and appreciated. Â Geolux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Hi Geolux, Take a look here Old vs new lens. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Antonio Russell Posted February 3, 2015 Share #2 Â Posted February 3, 2015 I think the APO summicron will become more appealing when future digital sensors are released that can make use of its higher resolution, other than that I don't really see the benefit of trading up from your existing 50mm lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 3, 2015 Share #3 Â Posted February 3, 2015 1. Will I regret selling these lenses? I'm afraid yes. Your lenses have a character that current ones don't share and future ones have little chance to imitate. 2. Is the 50 APO Summicron likely to hold its value in the long run [...]?If you buy it second hand probably yes but otherwise, difficult to say. 3. [...] Am I likely to even notice a difference in my photographic efforts when using a 50mm APO as compared to the old 50 mm Summicron or Summilux? [...]Yes mainly at f/1.4. Just kidding. Main difference you'll see at f/2-f/2.8 so if you shoot at f/16 you will need a huge loupe for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 4, 2015 Share #4 Â Posted February 4, 2015 I hope you will find a way to try out the 50 APO Summicron asph before you decide to sell either your Thambar or your Noctilux because the APO has a very different look to the non-APO Summicrons and you might not like it Too late then to buy back your older lenses. Try before you buy or you're very likely to regret it. Â Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted February 4, 2015 Share #5 Â Posted February 4, 2015 If I could have only two 50 mm lenses then it would be the Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm 1:2 Asph and the Noctilux-M 50 mm 1:0.95 Asph. If I could have only one then I'd be in trouble ... Â EDIT: Correction: serious trouble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geolux Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share #6 Â Posted February 4, 2015 Thank you for your opinions. You have confirmed a lingering suspicion I had about the whole idea. Â Geolux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted February 4, 2015 Share #7  Posted February 4, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Don't sell the Thambar!!!  If you have a nice sample and (as I read between the lines) if you like this lens, DON'T SELL IT!  Really good copies are very, very hard to come by and it will become harder as time progresses to find a sample if you ever want it back.  The Noctilux f1 is a similar yet different story. Second prices on such not rare, yet higher priced lenses seem to be down a bit these days - you might regret selling it now. It will be a lens though which you will be able to find easy enough to re-buy later.  It is unique enough from it's character to keep (if you like it's character).  You mention you have a Summilux and a Summicron … well if you crave for the optical excellence of the APO Summicron why not sell both your Summicron and the Summilux and buy yourself a modern 50 Summilux ASPH. It will offer you the convenience of f1.4 as your Summilux and almost the optical excellence of a APO Summicron. You will loose the smallness and lightweight of your Summicron.  Or you get that new lens bug out of your head, have your Summicron overhauled and keep using the lenses you have and stop contemplating new toys altogether ;-)  … and as a finishing note - are you sure, your old Summicron needs a CLA? Age alone is no reason for a need of a work-over - 20 years on a Leica lens of that vintage is no time ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted February 4, 2015 Share #8 Â Posted February 4, 2015 I also have a Thambar and the Mandler Noctilux /1, and would not dream of selling either of them. My question should be whether in the end you want the APO 50 or not. My advice is to uncouple the buy question from the sell question. Give you old Summicron a CLA, but there are better places than Leica for this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 4, 2015 Share #9 Â Posted February 4, 2015 If I were you, I'd probably wouldn't make the deal : Noctilux is a lens which by nature (f 1) has an uniqueness that the APO Summicron doesn't have : how many times one can really enjoy it is another matter, but in my opinion, one CAN have situations in which can regret NOT to have the capability to shot at f1, while... how many times one could honestly say to himself "this picture would have been really better, should only I had used the APO instead of my std. Summicron" ? And... I don't speak about the Thambar... as an avid collector of old Leitz lenses, my opinion is biased and obvious... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted February 4, 2015 Share #10 Â Posted February 4, 2015 I agree with the consensus view: keep both lenses, especially the Thambar. Define your specific requirement for a modern 50mm lens. Only then think about funding. Sometimes ultimate clinical rendering kills atmosphere, mood, interpretation and fine-art reproduction. You must know this given the scope of your Thambar lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickp13 Posted February 4, 2015 Share #11  Posted February 4, 2015 what an interesting question. if you lived in europe, i'd say let's exchange for 1-2 months, then meet and discuss what to do. i've used and greatly enjoyed the f1 noctilux, and am very interested in trying the thambar on the monochrom.  good luck with your 'challenge'.  greetings from hamburg  rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geolux Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share #12 Â Posted February 5, 2015 2-5-2015 Â OK. I will not sell either the THAMBAR or the NOCTILUX. After considering everything, I will continue to use what I have. If, at some indefinite time in the future, I come across a good used APO Summicron, I may consider just buying it outright. Â Again, thanks to everyone who gave consideration to my original post. Â However, I do have 2 ARISTOPHOT macrophotographic devices. They are big and heavy, and also wonderful things for macrophotography. Each has the standard Linhof mirror and sheet film holder. I am presently considering how to attach the M-240 to it, and make use of the long vertical bellows. Â And my wife would be pleased if one of them found a new home. Â Geolux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted February 5, 2015 Share #13 Â Posted February 5, 2015 2-5-2015Â OK. I will not sell either the THAMBAR or the NOCTILUX....However, I do have 2 ARISTOPHOT macrophotographic devices. They are big and heavy, and also wonderful things for macrophotography. Each has the standard Linhof mirror and sheet film holder. I am presently considering how to attach the M-240 to it, and make use of the long vertical bellows. Â And my wife would be pleased if one of them found a new home. Â Geolux Geolux, do send a pm to Dunk. He is expert at adapting very old lenses to modern digital bodies for macro and astro-photography. Have just checked and Dunk is dkpeterborough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geolux Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share #14 Â Posted February 5, 2015 2-5-2015 Â David: Â Do you have contact information such as an e-mail address for Dunk? Â Thanks for the suggestion. Â Geolux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 5, 2015 Share #15 Â Posted February 5, 2015 Why not rent the APO. Â Only your experience and preferences matter. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted February 6, 2015 Share #16  Posted February 6, 2015 2-5-2015 OK. I will not sell either the THAMBAR or the NOCTILUX. After considering everything, I will continue to use what I have. If, at some indefinite time in the future, I come across a good used APO Summicron, I may consider just buying it outright.  Again, thanks to everyone who gave consideration to my original post.  However, I do have 2 ARISTOPHOT macrophotographic devices. They are big and heavy, and also wonderful things for macrophotography. Each has the standard Linhof mirror and sheet film holder. I am presently considering how to attach the M-240 to it, and make use of the long vertical bellows.  And my wife would be pleased if one of them found a new home.  Geolux  HI Geolux, I have an almost complete Aristophot stored in at least two cupboards and acquired with the intention of adapting to a digital camera. I do not have an M 240 but do have an M9 plus Visoflex. Sometime in the future I will attempt to marry up the M9 to the Aristophot - but need to finish current projects first. The Aristophot includes a wonderful large adjustable ringlight with which looks very promising for subject illumination.  Best wishes  dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geolux Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share #17 Â Posted February 7, 2015 2-6-2015 Â HI, Dunk: Â If I can have your e-mail address, I will send some photos of the adaption of my Aristophot to an M bayonet mount. Â This adaption is not original with me, but the previous owner evidently had access to a friendly machinist who did a decent job of making a way to attach a Leica M to the Aristophot by use of an unusual variation of a Visoflex ( possibly version II ). Â I have 2 Aristophot units, each somewhat different from the other. Â I recently took them apart to give them a good cleaning - mostly dust and lubricant that had seen better days. I was eventually able to clean and relubricate them, and they are now operating very smoothly. On each unit, the bellows seem to be in rather good condition. Â Is your ring light original with the Aristophot? I have never seen such a variation. Â I have a 50mm f/2.8 Photar which I hope to be able to use, but first I need to find a way to attach the lens to the lower bellows assembly. It would seem that the original leaf shutter should be removed to permit the M-240 to operate correctly. Â Best wishes Geolux Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, U.S.A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted February 7, 2015 Share #18 Â Posted February 7, 2015 Hello:Â I own a 90mm f/2.2 Thambar lens, complete, in very fine condition [...] Â 1. Will I regret selling these lenses? [...] Â No, not if you are sh*t blind drunk when you do it. But then you will wake up. Â The Thambar is worth a bunch of money. Best look it up. The lens you are thinking of buying is just another new lens with nothing special to recommend it because you can always find one. Once you sell the Thambar it is totally bye-bye never-again. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphoenix Posted February 9, 2015 Share #19 Â Posted February 9, 2015 +1 pico. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodor Heinrichsohn Posted February 11, 2015 Share #20  Posted February 11, 2015 No, not if you are sh*t blind drunk when you do it. But then you will wake up. The Thambar is worth a bunch of money. Best look it up. The lens you are thinking of buying is just another new lens with nothing special to recommend it because you can always find one. Once you sell the Thambar it is totally bye-bye never-again. .  I could not agree more! I have a perfect condition Thambar, complete with hood and spot filter + the Univ.Repro Thambar 9cm and would never sell it. I used the lens on M film cameras with slide film, usually Kodachrome, for special and mostly surprising effects. The finished photo is difficult to judge in advance, even with live view. My usage on the M240 has been limited to a few trials. On the digital sensor the effects are somewhat different from film (slide) and I have not yet formed an opinion which I would want to pass on. When I want to have fun, I now use the Thambar on my Leica IIIg and Kodak Ektar 100 of which I still have some frozen stock. Teddy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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