mjh Posted January 13, 2015 Share #21 Posted January 13, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am confused; Leica once stated to use IPA (isopropyl alcohol) to clean the M9 sensor, while the current manufacturer ON Semiconductor says to use only pure ethanol to clean the sensor. If I find I have no choice but to do a wet cleaning, which do I use? Whatever you use - as long as you don’t use an excess of fluid (a drop or two on the swab suffices) and you don’t scratch the sensor you should be fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Hi mjh, Take a look here Reid Review on M9 sensors. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted January 13, 2015 Share #22 Posted January 13, 2015 I was once subscribed to Reed Reviews but dropped out because I felt he did not offer enough to pay for. His site still bombed me with e-mail, regardless. Finally I blocked him. Happy now. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennB Posted January 13, 2015 Share #23 Posted January 13, 2015 Whatever you use - as long as you don’t use an excess of fluid (a drop or two on the swab suffices) and you don’t scratch the sensor you should be fine. Thanks, yes I understand excess solvent might soak the edge of the sensor and migrate between the sensor and cover glass, but it would be nice to know which alcohol would be best for the health of the sensor. Each alcohol seems to be best for a certain contaminate as posted earlier, but Eclipse, Leica, and ON Semiconductor don't agree on which one is best for the sensor thus my confusion and frustration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted January 13, 2015 Share #24 Posted January 13, 2015 I spoke to Leica Allendale about the meaning of contact-non contact. They would not commit to the sticky stick even when I reminded them the Leica video and wet cleaning was not encouraged but could be done if non contact was done first and minimal fluid was used. They would not recommend a fluid. I regret not having anything more positive to report. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 13, 2015 Share #25 Posted January 13, 2015 Did you ask what cleaning methods and products they use themselves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
verendus Posted January 13, 2015 Share #26 Posted January 13, 2015 I don't post much here, but, have to chime in to defend Leica here. I also hope to give some peace of mind to those who are considering purchasing a used Leica in the US. I've owned 2 M9s. I am the second of the first M9 which I sent into Leica last summer for some flash sync issue. They quoted me $450 for shutter replacement, but since it only happened occasionally, I declined. Leica USA wanted to do cleaning and regular RF checkup, and decided to replace my sensor free of charge as good will warranty. The camera came back within 4 weeks and they also put in M9-P LCD upgrade for free. I don't know why, but it was just a gesture of goodwill. Without hesitation, I purchase another M9, much older serial as a third owner. This one had 2 sensor corrosion showing up f/8 and up. I sent it in after Leica made the announcement for free replacement. I did explain I was not the original owner, and they still replaced not only the sensor, but dial and did a full CLA including the RF. After 3.5weeks including 1 week of Christmas holiday, mine just shipped from NJ via second day air. I called them to personally thank the staff, and the technician assured me that there will be no charge in the future regardless of who owns the camera. Plus, they have found the issue and there will be permanent solution using different manufacturing/gluing process to block out moisture that corrodes the sensor. I am glad I didn't upgrade to M240 which I just did not bond well with. Now that Leica has an official stance on M9 sensor issue, My M9s seemed warrantied for life. Compared that to Nikon & Canon. I sold all of my Nikon after how they dealt with my D800 focus issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevidon Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share #27 Posted January 14, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) No article or written source is necessary. Methanol can damage the surface of organic materials and I understand that the coating on the sensor is most likely organic in part. Unfortunately, methanol is the one product that will clean the surface without leaving a residue. I am cautious about the subject of sensor cleaning due to my experience with my old Nikon D70s which did suffer from the same "corrosion issue" as does the Leica M9, and did produce the same " white spot " phenomenon after I used a highly regarded methanol based cleaner due to it's property of leaving no cleaning residue. The sensor was residue free, but the sensor was really messed up with the "white spots". At the time, I didn't know of the connection between cleaning methods and senor coating damage.But due to the extensive discussion in re.: M9 white spots, the connection is now quite clear to me now. Given Leica's recommendation that sensor cleaning be done at Leica at no charge, this is a no-brainer as far as I am concerned. I will continue to use a blower and occasionally use my Arctic Butterfly on my newly replaced sensor. But I will not attempt chemical or wet cleaning . That I leave to the experts. If they "break it", they own it, and not I. If you want to take a chance o doing your own wet cleaning, that is your choice. I can do without my M9 for a few weeks while it is back at Leica. I have other cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted January 14, 2015 Share #28 Posted January 14, 2015 The discussion does not address the fact that the bad sensor is being replaced with an identical sensor of the same faulty design. The problem is really not fixed. It may reappear in the future. How many sensor replacements will Leica provide for the same camera? I expect the sensors will run out of stock far sooner than all the cameras being repaired, and re-repaired. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuromis Posted January 14, 2015 Share #29 Posted January 14, 2015 Yes, the real solution still needs to be found. But I think that there won't be any out of stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 14, 2015 Share #30 Posted January 14, 2015 I think it is safe to assume that there is a strong motivation for Leica and ON to find a permanent solution. As soon as that is found the affected sensors will certainly be replaced by the improved design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronazle Posted January 14, 2015 Share #31 Posted January 14, 2015 Shortly before Xmas I sent my M9 in for repair (sensor), yesterday I received notice from Leica USA that the camera should be back around the 10th of Feb with no charge. Given the stupid but real emotions I felt makes me realize how much more I like the M9 than my backup M8. Regards, Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted January 14, 2015 Share #32 Posted January 14, 2015 Shortly before Xmas I sent my M9 in for repair (sensor), yesterday I received notice from Leica USA that the camera should be back around the 10th of Feb with no charge. Given the stupid but real emotions I felt makes me realize how much more I like the M9 than my backup M8. Regards, Ron I know what you mean :-) I had this feeling already twice with the M9. Once with an M8. And possible once more with the M9 in the future months... I guess we are all here: Catullus 85 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevidon Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share #33 Posted January 14, 2015 Yes, the real solution still needs to be found. But I think that there won't be any out of stock As one who has been in the Leica cheering section on this issue and the way Leica has handled the situation, I think it is only fair that I express some caution. As past of the Kodak bankruptcy, their sensor division was picked up by Truesense Imaging which was recently picked up by On Semiconductor. I checked out the supply of the sensor used by the M9, M9P, M Monochrome and ME. Current stock as of last week is 250. That really is not a lot. Hopefully, Leica has made sure that they will either continue to make the sensor, or better yet, get to the source of the white spot problem and fix it while keeping an adequate supply for future replacements as needed. I'm sure that this will now generate as lot of weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth by all of our M9 forum participants. Hopefully, the good folks at Leica will weigh in on this particular bit of news to reassure all of us M9, M9P, et al. owners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted January 15, 2015 Share #34 Posted January 15, 2015 Guys, On Semiconductor could stop making the sensor at any time, for any reason. Parts obsolescence is a huge problem in digital electronics. I expect Leica would much prefer that M9 owners switch to an M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 15, 2015 Share #35 Posted January 15, 2015 As one who has been in the Leica cheering section on this issue and the way Leica has handled the situation, I think it is only fair that I express some caution. As past of the Kodak bankruptcy, their sensor division was picked up by Truesense Imaging which was recently picked up by On Semiconductor. I checked out the supply of the sensor used by the M9, M9P, M Monochrome and ME. Current stock as of last week is 250. That really is not a lot. Hopefully, Leica has made sure that they will either continue to make the sensor, or better yet, get to the source of the white spot problem and fix it while keeping an adequate supply for future replacements as needed. I'm sure that this will now generate as lot of weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth by all of our M9 forum participants. Hopefully, the good folks at Leica will weigh in on this particular bit of news to reassure all of us M9, M9P, et al. owners. What you are seeing with regard to supplies is for open market and not what is under contract to be supplied to a buyer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennB Posted January 15, 2015 Share #36 Posted January 15, 2015 jevidon, I'm guessing your experience with the D70 led you to the methanol-sensor-white-spot connection. I have been doing some online searching but have not been able to find very much on the AR coating on the M9 cover glass, much less whether it's organic or otherwise. The best info I can find is an old Kodak paper from 2008 on how, in general, to handle their sensors. In it they recommended 200 proof Ethanol for cleaning Kodak sensor's cover glass. The only solvent that was stated as "bad" was Acetone. There could be more up to date info but so far an ON Semiconductor paper is the most recent I could find. It said to use only pure Ethanol. I'm starting to believe your choice of only letting Leica Service clean your sensors might be best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuromis Posted January 15, 2015 Share #37 Posted January 15, 2015 Guys, On Semiconductor could stop making the sensor at any time, for any reason. Parts obsolescence is a huge problem in digital electronics. I expect Leica would much prefer that M9 owners switch to an M. They will for sure stop one day. But when, depends as well on how much money they make with it. But today, it seems to be one out of 60 SKUs (only sensors). For me it is unlikely that they stop it soon, when there is a demand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 15, 2015 Share #38 Posted January 15, 2015 Guys, On Semiconductor could stop making the sensor at any time, for any reason. Parts obsolescence is a huge problem in digital electronics. I expect Leica would much prefer that M9 owners switch to an M. Supply contracts do have clauses about the period over which the product must be supplied. I know this business has changed hands a couple of times, but as the last sale was a voluntary one and the transfer from Kodak made before the company went into receivership, one may assume that legal obligations have passed on to the next owners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted January 15, 2015 Share #39 Posted January 15, 2015 In the US even a valid contract can be changed, particularly if Leica decides it wants to be done with the M9, now a huge money drain, in deference to the M. I assume Leica wants to be in the camera production business, not the free camera repair / re-repair business. Having a SKU and having stock on the shelf does not mean the sensor is in production. This sensor technology is getting very old, predating the M8. I'm only questioning how long the sensor will remain in production. One cannot assume that On Semiconductor bought Truesense Imaging to get the Leica contract. On Semiconductor may have bought Truesense Imaging in spite of the Leica contract. I have no knowledge of the situation, just a perspective on business. I just think it is a Pollyanna view that enough sensors will be available to repair and re-repair all M9 cameras that need new sensors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 15, 2015 Share #40 Posted January 15, 2015 Clearly the ability of Leica to replace these sensors depends entirely upon ON Semiconductor continuing to manufacture them and/or Leica stockpiling them in sufficient numbers (assuming the sensors plus associated electronics can be safely stockpiled without deterioration) but I can't imagine that Leica would have publicised the "goodwill guarantee" without being confident of a good supply of sensors over the coming years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.