M9 Buying Advise

[fore]

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Thank You for the discussion! This dealer btw offers a 1 yr warranty. I dropped by today to drop off the 90 AA for it's cleaning. And, kind of strange, he asked me why I needed to shoot the M9 again after spending 1.5hrs there last time. We talked a lot though then (my first time in a Leica store and first time putting my hands on one). But, I only made 15 images which he might've not known. Nevertheless, I got to compare both cameras. I kinda quickly shot both the M9 and the M w. a 50mm Summicron f2. I messed this up somewhat anyway. I forgot to bring my glasses and had contacts on which I wear at work. I just don't see quite as well comp. to glasses. (Terrible timing Jeff about the vision post! lol!)

 

First off I noticed in LR how much more red the M is, wow...too much to my liking but I'm sure if I play around with LR I can get them similar. That said, I did like the M quite a lot! And I liked the LV and focus confirm. But, I had a hard time seeing the red lines,maybe the red line is harder to use in bright light? Despite the contacts, I still had about 85% in focus with the M and about 70% in focus with the M9. And a few w. the M were incredibly sharp! However, I'm so damed slow at manual focusing! See below. The 50mm is a darn nice lens too btw as I know you all know. I'd love to have an M for a day or so and see how it, and myself, react to shooting it in more environments, and to judge the comfort to carry a day. I als love the bigger battery, the faster response to write, and found the ovf brighter, higher rate of in focus shots for sure.

 

The negatives (some due to my small hand tremor, and my photography 'skills'...one I can practice, the other is what it is) As I liked the Live View, too bad it's not visible thru the ovf too. About my skills...I need to work on <f4 which I haven't used that much before with my slower Canon lenses. I only hit 25% at f2's, the >f4 shots were better. The grain to me isn't usable above 1600/3200 iso for the M9/M, which was very nice plus for the M. The back dial is too small, but found the menu options intuitive. I also see too why some haven't like placement of the video button as I turned it on by accident twice. Both cameras just felt very nice in the hand, though kind of heavy, but I couldn't tell b/w the 9 and the M. Hence why it'd be cool to have it a few days. Weight and bulk is why I don't carry my 5D/90AA or 24-105L or certainly the 7-200IS L around. This has lead me not to photograph as much as I'd like recently. Plus, and this is 'the itch', the 5D/90AA images were always so much better than the L's that it made me not wanting to use them despite the cost. But there's no way I can carry that around all the time. Ugh ;-) After handling both, I would much prefer the M240. It just does 'more'. I really enjoyed using a Leica lens AND a Leica camera together, what a great system here. My only other consideration has been the Fuji XT-1 system whose images I'm also impressed with. Totally different beasts for sure. But I'd prefer an M240 and experience the use of a rangefinder.

 

Ending, my MAIN worry still regarding buying any Leica camera is my terribly slow manual focusing ability that will severely limit the scope of subjects. Static subjects just fine; moving subjects, I'm afraid I don't stand a chance unless I learn to focus differently.

But man, what a hell of a good camera!

 

Sorry for the long post ;-)

fore

[bocaburger]

If the camera is a lemon, it will show pretty quickly. Otherwise, it is most likely to show a little down the road after any limited "dealer" warranty expires.

 

The only way around that is to buy new or demo like I did with 2-yr Leica factory warranty, or certified pre-owned with 1 yr warranty like my 2nd M240. Frankly that is the only way I personally will buy a Leica digital, and requires buying from an authorized dealer.

 

a savvy seller will carefully chose a great deal on ebay, take immediate steps to verify the quality of the product (by if necessary having it checked out) and then decide if the camera is as represented. That will put the buyer in the same place as if he paid a premium from a "dealer."

 

I have had a few excellent experiences buying from private parties on fleabay but also many great disappointments. It's not always deception. Just because someone used it a couple years doesn't mean he knows (for example) the rangefinder is miscalibrated. Maybe he always shot 35mm lenses and stopped down and didn't notice. And "having it checked out" means sending it in to Leica and paying hundreds for a CLA, which most sellers do not do in my experience. Also many sellers have zero retail experience and no feel for customer service, and they react defensively or accusatively if the buyer reports the item was flawed or defective or not accurately described. And even if fleabay intervenes in the buyer's favor, it can be a time-consuming and aggravating process. That is just my experience. YMMV of course.

 

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[bocaburger]

Ending, my MAIN worry still regarding buying any Leica camera is my terribly slow manual focusing ability that will severely limit the scope of subjects. Static subjects just fine; moving subjects, I'm afraid I don't stand a chance unless I learn to focus differently.

But man, what a hell of a good camera!

fore

 

Many of us here have been using Leica's for decades and like playing an instrument, are very adept at it. And at the time many of us started with Leica's, the alternative was manual-focus reflex cameras with dim, grainy screens (Leicaflex SL and SL2 being remarkable exceptions). But just because today there are cameras that focus themselves at the touch of a button (not always on what the photographer wants though ) doesn't mean it isn't possible for a newbie today to become just as adept. As long as you realize the Leica is not a camera a newcomer to it can just pick up and get awesome results off the bat with all lenses, all subjects and all apertures and distances; and that some practice and effort will be needed, then you should not be disappointed. In fact in the end you'll have something to pride yourself on.

[Jeff S]

 

….I forgot to bring my glasses and had contacts on which I wear at work. I just don't see quite as well comp. to glasses. (Terrible timing Jeff about the vision post! lol!)

 

….First off I noticed in LR how much more red the M is

 

... But, I had a hard time seeing the red lines

 

... I also see too why some haven't like placement of the video button as I turned it on by accident twice.

 

….Ending, my MAIN worry still regarding buying any Leica camera is my terribly slow manual focusing ability that will severely limit the scope of subjects.

 

To address points above…

 

Yes, you really need to make sure your vision is corrected….glasses and/or otherwise….to give focusing a chance.

 

The red color is easily addressed. Plus, make sure you have the latest FW installed.

 

The frame lines can be red or white, per the menu. I prefer white.

 

LV and video buttons can be disabled in the menu (latest FW). No more accidents if you're not using.

 

For your main worry, see point one. After that, you'll either bond with the RF or not; some do, some don't, irrespective of subject matter. Many M users have a complementary system for other needs.

 

Jeff

[fore]

Many of us here have been using Leica's for decades and like playing an instrument, are very adept at it. And at the time many of us started with Leica's, the alternative was manual-focus reflex cameras with dim, grainy screens (Leicaflex SL and SL2 being remarkable exceptions). But just because today there are cameras that focus themselves at the touch of a button (not always on what the photographer wants though ) doesn't mean it isn't possible for a newbie today to become just as adept. As long as you realize the Leica is not a camera a newcomer to it can just pick up and get awesome results off the bat with all lenses, all subjects and all apertures and distances; and that some practice and effort will be needed, then you should not be disappointed. In fact in the end you'll have something to pride yourself on.

 

 

bocaburger, I had a used Canon F1 with a couple FD primes after high school, yeah, back when I had better...well, everything Auto focus ever since sadly. But I still have my 4x5 gear too which I don't use, just new to rangefinders. I have no expectations of greatness or perfection, just some fun and reinvigoration and decent image in the end. Encouraging re. practice makes perfect.

 

To address points above…

 

Yes, you really need to make sure your vision is corrected….glasses and/or otherwise….to give focusing a chance.

 

The red color is easily addressed. Plus, make sure you have the latest FW installed.

 

The frame lines can be red or white, per the menu. I prefer white.

 

LV and video buttons can be disabled in the menu (latest FW). No more accidents if you're not using.

 

For your main worry, see point one. After that, you'll either bond with the RF or not; some do, some don't, irrespective of subject matter. Many M users have a complementary system for other needs.

 

Jeff

 

Jeff, I don't know the FW version, so nice to hear about the video button, small issue I know. I'll play around with the M again when I pick the lens up. With proper glasses This time

 

After today though to be honest, my allegiance to buying locally is drying up quickly. Reminds me of audio stores...

 

fore

[otto.f]

Besides other advices as in post 2 for instance, I'd go for the new sensor. Not per se for that reason, but many people have experienced that an M9 that has been back to Leica for a CLA for whatever reason is a better M9 than one new from the store. You can be more sure that the sensor has been placed and adjusted very tight in accordance with the rangefinder.

The wear you're talking about is not excessive, I've got that too, bought it in 2010

[jaapv]

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First off I noticed in LR how much more red the M is, wow...too much to my liking but I'm sure if I play around with LR I can get them similar. That said, I did like the M quite a lot!

That is really a non-issue. With any camera, as soon as I get it I shoot a profile with the Colorchecker Passport, normally three - bright sun, household halogen light and a dual-illuminant. It is really easy to do so and synchronizes the camera output between cameras in postprocessing.

[tobey bilek]

That is really a non-issue. With any camera, as soon as I get it I shoot a profile with the Colorchecker Passport, normally three - bright sun, household halogen light and a dual-illuminant. It is really easy to do so and synchronizes the camera output between cameras in postprocessing.

 

Yes, profile the camera. All mine are done.

 

PS and probably LR can be set to recognize set up to specific camera serial # so "custom colors" appear with no effort. In ACR, it is under preferences. I never use JPEG but those can be adjusted in camera.

 

I also avoid auto WB like the plague. I normally set a custom WB with Whi Bal card under sun, tungsten, and flash and save as presets in camera.

[verendus]

I would really not worry about buying used. If you have a local seller or a dealer that you can meet and inspect the camera in person, there really is nothing to fear. I've bought two M9s in the past couple of years. I sent them in for a check and clean, and Leica replaced both with new sensor, complete CLA, RF adjustment, and the last one they even replaced the LCD with the new M9P LCD all for free as goodwill warranty. And they came back as brand new camera. Currently, Leica is making sure to stand behind M9s regardless of who owns it, so this sensor issue turns out to be a disguise in blessings.

 

Also with the possible M-E replacement with the same CCD, we won't have to worry about M9 CCD becoming obsolete like M8 parts.

 

IMHO, M9 has the best image quality and color of all Ms I've used. I really cannot stand the new CMOS look and am keeping my fingers crossed that Leica will continue CCD line of Ms via MEII or M-S or whatever they may call it. But, they certainly are listening...

[A miller]

The only way around that is to buy new or demo like I did with 2-yr Leica factory warranty, or certified pre-owned with 1 yr warranty like my 2nd M240. Frankly that is the only way I personally will buy a Leica digital, and requires buying from an authorized dealer.

 

 

 

I have had a few excellent experiences buying from private parties on fleabay but also many great disappointments. It's not always deception. Just because someone used it a couple years doesn't mean he knows (for example) the rangefinder is miscalibrated. Maybe he always shot 35mm lenses and stopped down and didn't notice. And "having it checked out" means sending it in to Leica and paying hundreds for a CLA, which most sellers do not do in my experience. Also many sellers have zero retail experience and no feel for customer service, and they react defensively or accusatively if the buyer reports the item was flawed or defective or not accurately described. And even if fleabay intervenes in the buyer's favor, it can be a time-consuming and aggravating process. That is just my experience. YMMV of course.

 

.

 

Fully agree regarding "fleabay." But there are plenty of ernest ebayers out there and careful sifting can be successful. I, for instance, have one of the only Monochroms up for auction right now and if you look at my description it should - if I've done it right - read like a prospectus with its detailed information. This is the way it should be, and this is what I seek out when I shop. The dealers that I come across don't (and often can't even if asked) provide this type of information in connection with second hand sales.

[fore]

Besides other advices as in post 2 for instance, I'd go for the new sensor. Not per se for that reason, but many people have experienced that an M9 that has been back to Leica for a CLA for whatever reason is a better M9 than one new from the store. You can be more sure that the sensor has been placed and adjusted very tight in accordance with the rangefinder.

The wear you're talking about is not excessive, I've got that too, bought it in 2010

 

I would really not worry about buying used. If you have a local seller or a dealer that you can meet and inspect the camera in person, there really is nothing to fear. I've bought two M9s in the past couple of years. I sent them in for a check and clean, and Leica replaced both with new sensor, complete CLA, RF adjustment, and the last one they even replaced the LCD with the new M9P LCD all for free as goodwill warranty. And they came back as brand new camera. Currently, Leica is making sure to stand behind M9s regardless of who owns it, so this sensor issue turns out to be a disguise in blessings.

 

Also with the possible M-E replacement with the same CCD, we won't have to worry about M9 CCD becoming obsolete like M8 parts.

 

IMHO, M9 has the best image quality and color of all Ms I've used. I really cannot stand the new CMOS look and am keeping my fingers crossed that Leica will continue CCD line of Ms via MEII or M-S or whatever they may call it. But, they certainly are listening...

 

Thanks Otto and Verundus for sharing. I'll prob. have time today to play around in LR and compare the M9 to the M's images further.

 

That is really a non-issue. With any camera, as soon as I get it I shoot a profile with the Colorchecker Passport, normally three - bright sun, household halogen light and a dual-illuminant. It is really easy to do so and synchronizes the camera output between cameras in postprocessing.

 

 

So I do you use those 3 images Jaapv in LR? I didn't see any options in Preferences for synching camera output...sorry, I don't know the terminology at all regarding this. It's only been recently that I have wanted to 'up my game' so to speak.

[jaapv]

Th Colourchecker software creates the camera profile and stores it in the appropriate location. Actually I use Photoshop and the camera profiles can be found in a simple pull-down menu in ACR. I'm sure LR has something similar as it uses ACR as well, but I am not really conversant with Lightroom.

[fore]

Th Colourchecker software creates the camera profile and stores it in the appropriate location. Actually I use Photoshop and the camera profiles can be found in a simple pull-down menu in ACR. I'm sure LR has something similar as it uses ACR as well, but I am not really conversant with Lightroom.

 

I watched Andrew Rodney's DNG profile video. Now I got it, Thanks Jaapv

[jaapv]

It'll save you quite a bit of dreary computer fiddling with the colour

[fore]

It'll save you quite a bit of dreary computer fiddling with the colour

 

Absolutely, and a good one for beginners. I also bought George Jardine's LR videos. Very clearly and well explained series. Long overdue for me to take my LR skills up a notch.

 

Still playing with my M9 and M images, but I like both. I could live with either. Heck, at this point, I'm leaning towards the M240 as I just used it better as a camera.

[otto.f]

If you worry about slow focusing, the M240 might have a slight advantage on the M9 (apart from the EVF way of focusing), the RF is more precise and thus works faster

[pico]

Eyes are funny things, which is why I always suggest that people get eyes tested first...

 

Funny, yes. In college I lived in a real Polish neighborhood. Newspapers, menus, shop signs were in Polish. Needed glasses so I just walked into the first shop I could recognize as an optometrist.

 

The doc put up a chart with "L E W C Z Y K" at the top and smaller and smaller lines below that I could not make out. I asked what that was. He said, "My name. Read the lines below."

Seriously, what Jeff said. I just got new glasses, tri-focals, and I have to use the middle lens which is good in real life for about about three feet, but through the .72 viewfinder it works for all distances. I can't figure it out.

Edited January 10, 2015 by pico