M9 Buying Advise

[fore]

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Hi everyone, new here, and possibly a new Leica owner. Before the holidays, I checked out an M9 for the first time. It felt great, I liked the ovf/focusing, and love the image reproduction from the camera. Now, it shows some wear (for instance, the bottom plate edge's shows some brass and the LCD has micro scratches), has 10k actuations, but interestingly, has a brand new sensor for $3,000. In the meantime I've shopped around further, and I've seen many a M9 from Ebay for instance, that is in better condition, with 10k actuations, but has an original sensor for $3300. The new sensor is attractive and I don't mind the wear. I'd love to hear others' opinions. It's a big decision.

 

Thanks

fore

[Jeff S]

Buy only from a reputable Leica dealer, with some form of warranty. Then get personal insurance to cover things the warranty doesn't.

 

I trust you know about M9 sensor (cover glass) corrosion issues, which could happen to any M9 or derivative, even if new. Fortunately Leica has a policy to cover such circumstances.

 

Jeff

Edited January 3, 2015 by Jeff S

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[250swb]

I agree that you should buy from a Leica Dealer who understands the cameras and will give a warranty and support. There is nothing to worry about in buying an M9 as any serious concerns are covered by Leica and you are still getting an exceptional camera.

 

Steve

[jaapv]

Buying a camera from eBay is a lottery. If you are lucky at lotteries, by all means, but otherwise stick to a reputed Leica dealer, it is safer.

The age of the sensor is basically irrelevant, but the fact that it has been replaced means that Leica has checked out the whole camera. There may even be some factory guaranty left on it (outside the USA, that is )

 

Cosmetic wear is just that, cosmetic and unimportant for the functioning of the camera.

[fore]

Great to hear, Jeff, 250swb, and jaapv. The camera w. the new sensor is from an authorized Leica dealer and comes w. a one yr warranty. I had forgotten that part. I feel much better now hearing what I too felt regarding the wear.

 

Thanks so Much,

fore

[wda]

Fore, welcome. Like others here, I strongly recommend buying from a genuine Leica dealer. It will be the start of a fruitful relationship which offers reassurance in the future.

[bocaburger]

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I just took delivery on a certified pre-owned M240 for $4800. Black one and looks like new even though dealer called it a 9. Not saying $1800 is insignificant, but to me well worth it for all the feature improvements and to be free of the recurrent sensor coating issue.

[fore]

That is a good deal, the cheapest this dealer had for a certified M240 was for $5500. I need some cash for at least one lens.

[uhoh7]

That is a good deal, the cheapest this dealer had for a certified M240 was for $5500. I need some cash for at least one lens.

You will like M9 better anyway

[fore]

Well, these two features are attractive though in the M: Live View Zoom and Live View Focus Peaking. I always, no matter what system, have difficulty focusing. I didn't play around with one the other day, but am going there today to drop off 90 for the cleaning. I'll check one out...and see if there's anyway to take both out on the street for different conditions. Too bad it's outside in this frigid air!

[Jeff S]

Well, these two features are attractive though in the M: Live View Zoom and Live View Focus Peaking.

 

I prefer the M, not because of LV or EVF (which are nice add-ons), but because I find it a better RF machine, with improved RF tolerances, internally lit frame lines (that likely create better VF contrast)….along with other enhancements to the RF experience….quieter shutter sound (less re-cock motor) and smoother release, 2m frame lines, faster processor, better battery and weather sealing. And it's more reliable than the M9 (sensor cracks, cover glass corrosion, SD card issues, discreet mode lockups, etc). I also find the files as good or better for my needs.

 

Note that LV, even if not used for pics, can be useful for quick camera/lens calibration checks. And both LV and movie mode can be disabled with the latest FW.

 

Depends on your preferences (and wallet)…both are highly capable machines.

 

Jeff

[fore]

I prefer the M, not because of LV or EVF (which are nice add-ons), but because I find it a better RF machine, with improved RF tolerances, internally lit frame lines (that likely create better VF contrast)….along with other enhancements to the RF experience….quieter shutter sound (less re-cock motor) and smoother release, 2m frame lines, faster processor, better battery and weather sealing. And it's more reliable than the M9 (sensor cracks, cover glass corrosion, SD card issues, discreet mode lockups, etc). I also find the files as good or better for my needs.

 

Note that LV, even if not used for pics, can be useful for quick camera/lens calibration checks. And both LV and movie mode can be disabled with the latest FW.

 

Depends on your preferences (and wallet)…both are highly capable machines.

 

Jeff

 

Thank you Jeff, it's great to hear diff. perspectives. "internally lit frame lines (that likely create better VF contrast)"

I read about that, I'll def. check that out today. If it's noticeably better, than I may try to score an M. Precise focusing is my weakness mainly due to a small hand tremor I have. I was surprised frankly I did as good a job I did on the M9 in the shop (pretty well lit)

[A miller]

I think one's relationship with his or her Leica dealer is a regional thing. I find that the relationships are stronger outside of the US. Not to put down any Leica dealer in the US, but I don't find that they stand behind their second hand products in any meaningful sense beyond a limited warranty that they may provide. And you will surely pay a premium by buying from a Leica dealer.

 

So many things can be wrong with a used M9, and these things can just as easily be wrong if bought from an "authroized dealer."

 

In my experience, authorized Leica dealers in the US don't test RF accuracy, sensor positioning, sensor dust or cracking, health or accuracy of metering system. So you are buying the same pot luck that you will get from ebay in many cases.

 

It is buyer beware all over the place.

 

And getting a solid bug-free M9 is as much a matter of luck as winning the lottery, IMHO.

 

I bought a "QM2" model M9 3 years ago and haven't used it all that much, and in these three years I've had the RF repaired, the sensor replaced and most recently the meter all of a sudden went dead and is back at Leica (now beyond the warranty period and hoping for a gesture of "good luck"). And a "QM2" model is supposed to be a new camera. No doubt it was, but these Leica electrical machines have a tendency of acting up.

 

If I were you, I would look into getting coverage against mechanical failure from your homeowner's insurance or through a SquareTrade warranty and them sifting ebay for a fire sale on an M9 that has just returned back from Leica. And in any case, I would cross check the serial nukber with Leica and verify the past service history on the camera.

 

Good luck, and may you have a great experience.

 

Adam

[sblitz]

+1

[bocaburger]

I prefer the M, not because of LV or EVF (which are nice add-ons), but because I find it a better RF machine, with improved RF tolerances, internally lit frame lines (that likely create better VF contrast)….along with other enhancements to the RF experience….quieter shutter sound (less re-cock motor) and smoother release, 2m frame lines, faster processor, better battery and weather sealing. And it's more reliable than the M9 (sensor cracks, cover glass corrosion, SD card issues, discreet mode lockups, etc). I also find the files as good or better for my needs.

 

Note that LV, even if not used for pics, can be useful for quick camera/lens calibration checks. And both LV and movie mode can be disabled with the latest FW.

 

Depends on your preferences (and wallet)…both are highly capable machines.

 

Jeff

 

Great summation Jeff. The only thing I might not concur with is the lit frame lines. To me they are always too bright, and I wish there was a menu item to adjust them to taste as there is for monitor brightness. I have noticed I have a bit more issue focusing the M240 than I did the M9, and I know the magnification is the same and my eyesight hasn't changed, so my theory is the brightly-lit frame lines are influencing my pupils to constrict and that in turn makes seeing the rangefinder images harder.

[bocaburger]

Not to put down any Leica dealer in the US, but I don't find that they stand behind their second hand products in any meaningful sense beyond a limited warranty that they may provide.

 

What would you have them do beyond that? B&H and Adorama have 90 day warranties. KEH (an authorized Leica dealer btw) has a 180-day warranty. If they can't fix it or exchange it they'll refund your money. Idk about other dealers, or the Leica Stores. I've never bought any used gear from them unless it was official Leica demo or pre-owned-certified. The sense in buying from a dealer is to me that they are more concerned with repeat business and their reputation (in terms of bad press on forums) than a private individual on fleabay.

[Jeff S]

Great summation Jeff. The only thing I might not concur with is the lit frame lines. To me they are always too bright, and I wish there was a menu item to adjust them to taste as there is for monitor brightness. I have noticed I have a bit more issue focusing the M240 than I did the M9, and I know the magnification is the same and my eyesight hasn't changed, so my theory is the brightly-lit frame lines are influencing my pupils to constrict and that in turn makes seeing the rangefinder images harder.

 

Eyes are funny things, which is why I always suggest that people get eyes tested first, then actually use the camera (with or without aids such as magnifiers, diopters, or glasses). Specifications don't substitute for experience. For me, the M provides a superior viewing and focusing experience, but my M8.2 is plenty good enough, too, for making pics….just not quite as nice for me.

 

I wouldn't buy any camera without being satisfied with how it allows me to see, and focus, on the scene; It's my make or break criterion before all else. It's a key reason why I've used an M…film and digital…for decades. For some, it doesn't connect.

 

Jeff

[A miller]

If the camera is a lemon, it will show pretty quickly. Otherwise, it is most likely to show a little down the road after any limited "dealer" warranty expires.

 

Any ebay purchase can be easily returned within a short period of time (7-14 days) without regard to what the seller says, b/c it is a buyer-friendly market. So a savvy seller will carefully chose a great deal on ebay, take immediate steps to verify the quality of the product (by if necessary having it checked out) and then decide if the camera is as represented. That will put the buyer in the same place as if he paid a premium from a "dealer."

 

I am merely advocating the other perspective. I believe there is some value in buying from a reputable dealer, but I don't think it is so absolute as has been suggested.

Edited January 6, 2015 by A miller

[Jeff S]

Sounds like you never met a good dealer. 7-14 days is a long way from 180 days (e.g., KEH and others), and good dealers don't disappoint loyal customers, despite the warranty terms. But I agree about personal insurance, regardless….and said so in the first response to the OP.

 

Jeff

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[A miller]

I have never had dealings with a "good dealer" as you have defined it. But if you say you have, I sincerely trust you. While we are at it, though, I would throw into my own definition of a "good dealer" someone who makes a good faith effort to thoroughly inspect the gear that he buys second hand for bugs and clearly disclose thse bugs to prospective subsequent second hand purchasers. It is not enough for me that the dealer sells gear with undisclosed bugs and then agrees later after the purchase to help take care of it. As a customer, I would rather buy things with full transparency than deal with a headache later.