Experience with 2X extender

[wlaidlaw]

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John, 

I would really have needed my massive Manfrotto 074B tripod, which weighs about 10kg and then hung another heavy weight underneath. The wooden Berlebach tripods are lovely looking objects but not very rigid and quite light. With the wooden construction, they are supposed to dampen mirror shake but as I can lock up the mirror on my R9, little benefit to me. 

Wilson

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[UliWer]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb masjah:

Given the huge effective focal length, and the commensurate capacity for magnifying any vibrations, I think you've done well to get it even as sharp as this.  With my 280/4 R + 2X Apo Extender (so "only" 560mm) I find I have to take every possible precaution to avoid vibrations transmitted through the tripod. ...

Since the extender reduces the opening of your lens by two stops, you need longer shutter speeds with a higher risk of shaking etc. 

When I compared the results of the 1:3,4/180 Apo-R with the 2x Apo-Extender to crops without the extender - the crops where better. The same was true when I compared the results with extender and the lens fully opened to crops without the extender at f 1:6.8. Even though I had to use the same shutter speed the crops where better, since the lens is better stopped down than fully opened.

I think the extenders had their justification in times of analogue photography e.g. with slides which you could not crop. In times of digital options for post processing one might get more sceptical whether an extender is really worth it. 

[bags27]

9 hours ago, UliWer said:

Since the extender reduces the opening of your lens by two stops, you need longer shutter speeds with a higher risk of shaking etc. 

When I compared the results of the 1:3,4/180 Apo-R with the 2x Apo-Extender to crops without the extender - the crops where better. The same was true when I compared the results with extender and the lens fully opened to crops without the extender at f 1:6.8. Even though I had to use the same shutter speed the crops where better, since the lens is better stopped down than fully opened.

I think the extenders had their justification in times of analogue photography e.g. with slides which you could not crop. In times of digital options for post processing one might get more sceptical whether an extender is really worth it. 

That's a really, really interesting point. Thanks for decentering my thinking on this.  I use the 2x APO with a 80-200 f/4 and a 135 f/2.8, both on the CL.The former requires a chest tripod for me to keep it sharp (@ 1/1000 second), and I will try it without the extender. I'm pretty comfortable using the extender with the latter, which is much lighter and faster, so easily handheld at 1/500 second.

Edited June 8, 2019 by bags27

[ramarren]

Moral of the story: If you're going to use high magnification lenses, or ultra wide lenses, get used to using a tripod if you're looking for critical sharpness.

"My sharpest lens is a sturdy tripod."

[J.Nordvik]

M10 + APO 3,4/180 + APO Extender 2x

TL + APO 3,4/180 + APO Extender 2x

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[J.Nordvik]

Crop from M10. I think there is some vibrations from the shutter on this model. 

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[J.Nordvik]

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Crop from TL:

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[J.Nordvik]

Another one with M10:

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[J.Nordvik]

Here is an earlier test.

[mmx_2]

These two where taken with M240, 80-200 f4 and apo-extender at 200mm and f5.6 (so 400mm, f11). I think they turned out quite ok. Both from Zoo in Copenhagen:

 

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Edited September 17, 2019 by mmx_2

[mmx_2]

On 6/8/2019 at 4:38 AM, bags27 said:

That's a really, really interesting point. Thanks for decentering my thinking on this.  I use the 2x APO with a 80-200 f/4 and a 135 f/2.8, both on the CL.The former requires a chest tripod for me to keep it sharp (@ 1/1000 second), and I will try it without the extender. I'm pretty comfortable using the extender with the latter, which is much lighter and faster, so easily handheld at 1/500 second.

I've used the 80-200 and apo extender quite a lot together and here are some hints:

*Never go below 1/1500s handheld (I usually fix the shutter at 1/1500 and use auto ISO)

*f4 (f8) is not recommended, use f5.6 (f11) as minimum. I usually shot at f5.6 or f8

*be sure to support the lens with your hand when shooting, because you now have 3 joints instead of just one, and although nicely machined, there are always some play

[james.liam]

9 hours ago, mmx_2 said:

 

*f4 (f8) is not recommended, use f5.6 (f11) as minimum. I usually shot at f5.6 or f8

 

Wondering if the same be true for the APO long lenses. 

[mmx_2]

11 hours ago, james.liam said:

Wondering if the same be true for the APO long lenses. 

I do have the apo 280 f4, but I haven't really used it much because of weight and size. Only time I've used it with apo extender was together with TO-R ocular to watch the moon (which was quite impressive!). But I can see if I can make some test shots. Leica states in their manual that one should stop down 1 step when using the extenders (I think it's a quite general rule of thumb).

[james.liam]

6 hours ago, mmx_2 said:

I do have the apo 280 f4, but I haven't really used it much because of weight and size. Only time I've used it with apo extender was together with TO-R ocular to watch the moon (which was quite impressive!). But I can see if I can make some test shots. Leica states in their manual that one should stop down 1 step when using the extenders (I think it's a quite general rule of thumb).

Egads! ƒ/11.6 ?!?!?! Diffraction-city. 

 

[J.Nordvik]

On 9/17/2019 at 9:04 PM, james.liam said:

Wondering if the same be true for the APO long lenses. 

APO-Telyt 3,4/180mm is not a long lens, but it is best at 3,4 or 4,0. It is clearly worse at 5,6 with APO x 2. But less so without.

[mmx_2]

In general (as others already have stated) it’s better to crop from a high res sensor (like the S1R) than using extenders these days. Especially for the long Tele lenses. I do use my apo extender sometimes for convenience, like together with summicron 50 to get a short compact Tele (I just keep the extender in the pocket). 

The apo extender is really great optically so image degradation is very little even with the combination above.

[sls]

I used an APO-Telyt 3.4/180 with the 2x APO and found it perfectly fine. Here's a vertical-only crop on M10.

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I sold it as I didn't think I'd need it, but have just bought an 80-200 R f4.

Edited September 26, 2019 by sls