Experience with 2X extender

[Overgaard]

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I got a 2X extender recently mainly to use it with my 80mm F/1.4 to get a tele not requiring much light.

 

The 2X Extender makes the 80mm F/1.4 into a 160 mm F/2.8 according to Leica's website (there is a list of lenses that the APO-extender works with on the website under the APO Extender).

 

This is not the APO-extender but an older one.

 

I tested it yesterday and you can see some examples here:

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/other/22834-cirkus-2x-extender-test-80mm-f.html

 

I find the result a bit milky and hard to get real sharp. I also did some tests with the 50mm F/2.0 which I will post a bit later.

[Angora]

Thanks for the test, Thorsten.

 

I'm also interested by a 80 + Extender combination, with the 2× APO though.

Maybe this configuration is less « milky ».

 

By the way, did you apply -1EV as it is recommended ?

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[stuny]

Thorsten -

 

Using the 2X APO with the 80-200 in my first outing with my R8 in January 2000 I got these rather good results on Fuji 400 print film, no EV correction, and then run through my cheap scanner applying all of my meager scanning skills. Scanned and reduced for the Internet makes this quite inferior to the print. Draw whatever conclusions you may, but I don't understand why you got the results you did.

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[robert_parker]

Stuart

 

The bokeh and the apparent sharpness of the subject are interesting and not easy to get - many say the 1.4 APO extender is a good choice too and maybe Torsten would have been happier with that one as an alternative

[hektor]

I got a 2X extender recently mainly to use it with my 80mm F/1.4 to get a tele not requiring much light.

 

The 2X Extender makes the 80mm F/1.4 into a 160 mm F/2.8 according to Leica's website (there is a list of lenses that the APO-extender works with on the website under the APO Extender).

 

This is not the APO-extender but an older one.

 

I tested it yesterday and you can see some examples here:

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/other/22834-cirkus-2x-extender-test-80mm-f.html

 

I find the result a bit milky and hard to get real sharp. I also did some tests with the 50mm F/2.0 which I will post a bit later.

 

Dear Thorston,

 

The 1980 2X Extender-R is not worth having. I bought one new and eventually Leitz replaced it for me. I still could not get decent results so sold it.

 

In 2004 I bought the 2X Apo-Extender-R and am very pleased with it. In the real world I cannot distinguish between it and a prime lens of equivalent focal length.

 

You might also consider the advice from Leica not to use an extender on lenses faster than f/2.

 

In your situation, wanting an f/2.8 160mm lens, why not for similar money buy the old classic Apo-Telyt-R 1:3.4/180?

 

Sincerely,

 

Justin

[Guest maddin]

I

The 2X Extender makes the 80mm F/1.4 into a 160 mm F/2.8 according to Leica's website (there is a list of lenses that the APO-extender works with on the website under the APO Extender).

.

 

Dear Thorsten,

 

this is not the case. There are obviously some factors limiting the max aperture so practically you would get approximately a 4/160 only. One of them appears to be the diameter of the extender itself limiting the max apperture to 2. Try to close to f2 -> f4 with the extender and see if the results get better.

 

I use the 80Lux with the APO x2 (both with ROM), close it to f2 and am very pleased (especially if you don't want to carry additional tele lenses.

 

cheers

[Overgaard]

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By the way, did you apply -1EV as it is recommended ?

 

Ahm, no. That could explain some of it. I will look at the website again but I don't remember having seen it. I also got a manual so I'll read that too.

 

Does make sense somehow.

[Overgaard]

Dear Thorston,

 

The 1980 2X Extender-R is not worth having. I bought one new and eventually Leitz replaced it for me. I still could not get decent results so sold it.

 

In 2004 I bought the 2X Apo-Extender-R and am very pleased with it. In the real world I cannot distinguish between it and a prime lens of equivalent focal length.

 

You might also consider the advice from Leica not to use an extender on lenses faster than f/2.

 

In your situation, wanting an f/2.8 160mm lens, why not for similar money buy the old classic Apo-Telyt-R 1:3.4/180?

 

I tested the APO and this one and the difference was 1,000 € second-hand and as I couldn't see any difference in sharpness (which was the thing we tested for; with the 80mm you can't get any of them 100% sharp in the standard R8 viewfinder) I took the most economical. With an option to return it.

 

I'm scanning some concert shots (which was really what specifically bought if for) and it looks as if it just can't handle anything but light from behind. The slightest light into the lens and awfull stuff happens.

 

I also looked at the 180mm F/3.4 (350 €) and the light edition of the 180mm F/2.8 (390 €) but liked the idea of experimenting with the 2X more at that time.

 

I feel very tempted to get the 180mm F/2.8 as I'm for as little light as possible but suspect the F/3.4 is better, according to what I have read so far (problem is that I would mostly use a tele indoor; and if outdoor, half the year 100 ISO F/2.0 photography in Denmark is 1/60 - 1/125.

[Overgaard]

Dear Thorsten,

 

this is not the case. There are obviously some factors limiting the max aperture so practically you would get approximately a 4/160 only. One of them appears to be the diameter of the extender itself limiting the max apperture to 2. Try to close to f2 -> f4 with the extender and see if the results get better.

 

I use the 80Lux with the APO x2 (both with ROM), close it to f2 and am very pleased (especially if you don't want to carry additional tele lenses.

 

cheers

 

The samples are all F/4.0 as I know F/1.4 - F/2.8 might be troublesome.

 

What Leica says (about the APO-2X) is that it is for lenses F2 and up, but then lists the F/1.4 and in a way so that I get the idea I 'save' some stops because I have to jump the steps I anyway can't use with it (did that make sense?).

 

So that means that from F/2.0 the 80mm F/1.4 should be ok.

 

Anyway, "look, don't think" so I'll do some more tests. The trouble getting the 80mm in focus is well-known, with the 2X it seems an entire different game.

[masjah]

Thorsten

 

There are a couple of points here.

 

Firstly, I have the 2X APO Extender, and have always been very pleased indeed with the results that it produces (agree with Justin). I've never tried the earlier version myself, but several people whose opinions I much respect (including Justin's) find that there is absoloutely no comparison between the two. As you say, you compared them for sharpness, but your test images show that colour balance and contrast are just as important, and I'm sure that the APO version will score heavily in these regards.

 

Secondly, the question of focussing. I think it has to be accepted that it is more difficult to focus with an extender than using a single equivalent prime lens. I think it's a question of the designed "gearing". For example, I have the 90/2 AA and also the 180/2.8 Apo. The 90AA will focus down to 0.7m over a rotation of (about) three-quarters of a turn of the ring. However, to go from infinity to 1.5m takes only just over a quarter turn. On the other hand, the 180/2.8 takes three-quarters of a turn from infinity to 1.5m. Now I know that one should not rely precisely on the distance scale when using the extender, but the ball-park is the same, and the minimum focussing distance is preserved. So you can see why things can be quite tricky.

 

I was at York Minster yesterday, photographing the magnificent roof bosses inside in the central tower, and I used the 280/4 Apo Telyt + 2X Apo extender. It was not easy to focus! It would have been impossible without the angle-finder attachment, partly because I could not have contorted myself to view the image with the camera on a tripod pointing vertically upwards, but also because the optional 2X magnification option on the finder enabled me to focus the thing at all!

 

I've no experience of using a 1.4 lens with the extender - I know you've got to stop it down, and then compensate the exposure.

[Overgaard]

So I've posted the test shots with the 2X Extender and the 50mm F/2.0.

 

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/other/22881-castle-2x-extender-test-50mm-f.html

 

It definitely gives some qualities to the 50mm as a 100mm lens and the 'milky' look that the 80mm shots has is gone (which might be because the 80mm was supposed to be -1EV when photographed).

[Angora]

Ahm, no. That could explain some of it. I will look at the website again but I don't remember having seen it. I also got a manual so I'll read that too.

 

Does make sense somehow.

 

The LEICA APO-EXTENDER-R 2x, constructed from seven elements in five groups, is designed for lens units with a maximum aperture of 1:2 or smaller, and they reduces the aperture by 2 f/stops. So when used with the LEICA SUMMILUX-R 50 mm f/1.4, for example, there is no increase in light compared to using a lens with a 1:2 aperture number. This means an exposure compensation of -1EV is needed, and the Summilux should be stopped down to at least to f/2.

 

Leica Camera AG - Photography - LEICA APO-EXTENDER-R

 

Their table seems to recommand tu use the 80 + 2× at f/2,8 for optimal quality, but it seems it's possible to use it at f/2 in case of « emergency » as text says.

 

EDIT : well I just forgot a detail... this recommandation is for APO-Extender, not Extender ! But it may apply to it too...

[Overgaard]

I'll post the manual a bit later.

 

But what it does say on the -1EV for the non-APO 2X Extender is this:

 

"...the extender has been designed only for lenses of f/2.0 og slower, with the f/1.4 lenses the exposure measurement must be corrected by setting the override at -1.

Moreover, these lenses should be stopped down to f/2.0, better to f/4.0"x

 

I'll try to shoot f/1.4 at f/1.4 and set the exposure to -1EV (and see what happens)

[Overgaard]

It should be pointed out that the manual says that with the 2X Extender the lenses can be focused beyond infinity.

 

And that the neither the split wedge or the coarse micro prism screen in the camera can be used for forcusing.

 

One must use the area outside. So that explains why the non-APO, nor the APO extender can focus properly with the 80mm f/1.4 (which is hard enought to focus without the extender).

 

Anyway, will post the full manual later.

[Angora]

I found a copy of the APO manual and, as I understand it, this problem with the focussing screen occurs only when the final aperture (lens + extender) is superior to f/4 or f/5,6.

 

That wloud explain why you didn't have problems with the Cron 50 + Extender that opens at f/4.

[Overgaard]

You arae right. That is what is says; that the focusing screen is made for lenses to 4.0 - 5.6.

 

That explains why you can't use the center of the focusing screen with the Telyt 400mm F/6.8.

 

But then it does not explain why it's a problem with the F/1.4 80mm to get focus 100% in the center (simply impossible to use the center of the screen for focusing).

[Angora]

Yes, maybe another member can give a feedback.

[Overgaard]

Here are some more test shots with the 2X Extender and the 400mm Telyt-R f/6.8 which with the 2X Extender is made into an impressive 800mm f/11 lens.

 

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/other/23205-400mm-tests-2x-extender.html

[zapp]

Did anyone test the Apo Extender with the 90AA? the combo is even mentioned in the 90AA spec sheet. It could be a compact replacement for a 180.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[masjah]

Zapp

 

I used the Apo 2X + 90AA before I got my 180/2.8 Apo. and was very pleased with the results.