Is the camera industry in recession?

[Reddotcamera]

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Is the camera industry in recession?

 

Some facets of the camera industry may be in recession like pocket cameras and entry level or hobbyist cameras.

 

I doubt that the D800, M240, Monochrom and medium format digital camera sales are facing a downturn, though. Those who want high end cameras will find or make a way to purchase them.

[kdriceman]

Could somebody please explain how this technique (is it unique to the USA?) works! Surely buying something, using it for 30 days, then sending it back because you don't like it, seems to have an end disadvantage for someone. Is it the poor retailer, or the next buyer that has to wear the 'damage' of the now used goods? I would have thought a considered investigation of the desired equipment, maybe including hiring before buying would be more prudent, and honest.

 

I acknowledge there is a level of criticism in my post, but there is a genuine interest in how it really works and who really pays for the mistake.

 

Is this practice contributing to the alleged camera recession?

 

Fair question. Many retailers offer a 'satisfaction guaranteed' return policy - here is a copy from the B&H Photo website "Our goal is to ensure your complete satisfaction

If, for whatever reason, you are dissatisfied with your purchase, you can return it to B&H within 30 days of purchase date subject to conditions below. " Now, in the case of B&H the equipment must be returned in 'as new' condition. I don't know what arrangements they have with the manufacturer for the return of equipment, but the policy is clearly designed to increase sales and undoubtedly pays off or they wouldn't keep it. For example, over the years I have purchased literally tens of thousands of dollars in equipment from B&H and I do so with a sense of comfort knowing if it isn't quite what I thought it would be I can return it and I have never returned an item under this policy until I returned the XT1.

 

I do make a good faith effort to do my due diligence because I don't think it is right to just buy something with the intention to send it back and I don't need to go to the extra effort of sending it back. In this case, the XT1 was a brand new model so it wasn't available to rent. I did, however, rent an XPro 1 in advance just to get a feel for the files and a couple lenses, but it is a different camera. All I had to go on was preliminary reviews which were all glowing reviews.

 

So, I bought the camera and a lens. I got it, tried it out. Painstakingly compared the files with files from my Nex 6, my M240 and used both native Fuji lenses and my Leica lenses. I took dozens - probably hundreds of shots testing the autofocus tracking which was claimed to be outstanding. It wasn't. The images were nice, but were short of the M240 and not noticeably better than my Nex 6.

 

So, what should one do. Suck it up and say "I'm disappointed, but oh well... there goes $1,600? " Or take advantage of the return policy.... if not for which I would not have purchased the camera in the first place. And, now, I will be a happy return customer (I already have been on different equipment)

 

Which is of course why they have the policy. They want people to buy. There is no doubt B&H and Amazon and the others have done their homework and determined such a policy increases net sales of the products. More people are going to buy if they believe: "hey, if I it's not what I think it will be, at least I can return it". In this case, I really wanted to keep the camera, but it doesn't perform up to the standards I expected or was led to believe. So, back it goes. I'm happy I didn't spend $1600 on something less than i expected. B&H is happy because they have a good customer who is happy and will be coming back to buy more.

 

My guess is that the increase in sales because of the policy significantly offsets the occasional return.

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[Berth]

LL Bean is another retailer who holds considerable customer loyalty because of their return policy, like Nordstorm (department store) in the West. Standing behind the goods you sell is very good business. And good for the bottom line.

[MarkP]

Could somebody please explain how this technique (is it unique to the USA?) works! Surely buying something, using it for 30 days, then sending it back because you don't like it, seems to have an end disadvantage for someone. Is it the poor retailer, or the next buyer that has to wear the 'damage' of the now used goods? I would have thought a considered investigation of the desired equipment, maybe including hiring before buying would be more prudent, and honest.

 

I acknowledge there is a level of criticism in my post, but there is a genuine interest in how it really works and who really pays for the mistake.

 

Is this practice contributing to the alleged camera recession?

 

Yes, I've often wondered about this as I wouldn't want to buy someone else's tried-for-a-month-but-rejected-it camera.

It really should be then sold on as a demo.

[jdlaing]

Yes, I've often wondered about this as I wouldn't want to buy someone else's tried-for-a-month-but-rejected-it camera.

It really should be then sold on as a demo.

 

It's done a lot and in the case of cameras, computers and other electronics they are sold as refurbished items, not as new.

[stevesurf]

There is no doubt B&H and Amazon and the others have done their homework and determined such a policy increases net sales of the products.

 

B&H is happy because they have a good customer who is happy and will be coming back to buy more.

 

My guess is that the increase in sales because of the policy significantly offsets the occasional return.

 

Very true; in the case of Amazon A-to-Z guarantee it's a cornerstone of their brand loyalty.

 

What is interesting is that some companies have made a successful business of reselling refurbished items at reasonable pricing, like Apple. These vary, but around 15% off, with original warranty and almost no discernible difference of being used.

[erl]

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OK. Albeit old fashioned, I am a bit wiser.

 

Thanks for the responses.

[algrove]

Steve

I know it's hard to believe, but it is de rigueur in the US right now. I sent my a7r back with 35 FE and received my refund within 2 days of their receipt. I had every intention of keeping it when purchased, but with M wide angle lens problems and R lens issues with vibration I could not live with it and ended up buying a second M body instead. Not in the same price range, but I did want a backup for my M. I got one now!

[stevesurf]

Steve

I know it's hard to believe, but it is de rigueur in the US right now. I sent my a7r back with 35 FE and received my refund within 2 days of their receipt. I had every intention of keeping it when purchased, but with M wide angle lens problems and R lens issues with vibration I could not live with it and ended up buying a second M body instead. Not in the same price range, but I did want a backup for my M. I got one now!

 

You seem to be right as I've been finding a great amount of material on "reverse logistics." It seems unanimous that it enhances customer trust and the repeat sale.

 

I'm wondering now if the figures I was looking at are Net Sales or Gross Sales

[luigi bertolotti]

OK. Albeit old fashioned, I am a bit wiser.

 

Thanks for the responses.

 

Me too... this "30 day return - full refund" policy would sound an oddity in my Country (and other European, I think) ... imho is a fact of culture of consumer sales which is quite different across the Atlantic.... I heard from the executive of a well reknown top Italian luxury brand, that for their US stores is no rare that a customer (male/female) buys on afternoon a pair of 1.500 US$ luxury shoes, wears them for a night event, returns the day after for "he/she feels uncomfortable with", and gets refund... unthinkable behavior here... so, as a consequence, they have a specific policy for which exercise their right to NOT SELL to a specific person... when (through credit card records) verify that a person has exercised his return right too many times... (he didn't give me details about the rules of this policy) ; and of course, "used once" products enter in the channel of fire sales, which also has its own management system, timings etc....

[stevesurf]

Me too... this "30 day return - full refund" policy would sound an oddity in my Country

 

"used once" products enter in the channel of fire sales, which also has its own management system, timings etc....

 

Next time you visit Phoenix, look for a store called Nordstrom Last Chance. It is the only Nordstrom in the world that has continuous "fire sales" at 90% discount off the original MSRP. Should you return those those expensive Ferragamos that you only wore "once", they will wind up at Last Chance for 90% off.

[algrove]

Luigi

You are spot on about cross Atlantic differences. My wife still marvels at the differences here and in Europe where she is from. She does admit though that when I purchase camera gear I do not find compatible with my likings and return is always a last alternative.

 

Never returned a piece of Leica gear that I recall unless defective.

[algrove]

Next time you visit Phoenix, look for a store called Nordstrom Last Chance. It is the only Nordstrom in the world that has continuous "fire sales" at 90% discount off the original MSRP. Should you return those those expensive Ferragamos that you only wore "once", they will wind up at Last Chance for 90% off.

 

Steve

 

Better not tell my wife about this or she will be on my next flight to Phoenix which is less than 6 months away.

[jaapv]

Me too... this "30 day return - full refund" policy would sound an oddity in my Country (and other European, I think) ... imho is a fact of culture of consumer sales which is quite different across the Atlantic.... I heard from the executive of a well reknown top Italian luxury brand, that for their US stores is no rare that a customer (male/female) buys on afternoon a pair of 1.500 US$ luxury shoes, wears them for a night event, returns the day after for "he/she feels uncomfortable with", and gets refund... unthinkable behavior here... so, as a consequence, they have a specific policy for which exercise their right to NOT SELL to a specific person... when (through credit card records) verify that a person has exercised his return right too many times... (he didn't give me details about the rules of this policy) ; and of course, "used once" products enter in the channel of fire sales, which also has its own management system, timings etc....

 

There is a law over here that an Internet sale has a 14-day "cooling-off" period during which the article -in pristine shape-original packing etc.- must be accepted by the store for a full refund. I'm sure other European countries have similar laws.

[stevesurf]

There is a law over here that an Internet sale has a 14-day "cooling-off" period during which the article -in pristine shape-original packing etc.- must be accepted by the store for a full refund. I'm sure other European countries have similar laws.

 

Wow, over here the last thing we need to do is to regulate the retail industry

Glad it works for you folks!

 

Steve

 

Better not tell my wife about this or she will be on my next flight to Phoenix which is less than 6 months away.

 

It is seriously amazing and well worth the trip. I just got a pair of $400 Mephisto shoes that look unused for $30 US. You can even get Tumi luggage that looks like it was used once, for $150 (the type that retails for $900). There has to be thousands of women's shoes and fights sometimes break out when the doors open. I must get a picture sometime of two women armed with Uggs threatening each other

 

All sales are final, though as you can't return something that has already been returned.

[mjh]

There is a law over here that an Internet sale has a 14-day "cooling-off" period during which the article -in pristine shape-original packing etc.- must be accepted by the store for a full refund. I'm sure other European countries have similar laws.

Actually in Germany this applies to any mailorder sale, whether the order was placed via the internet, by phone, or by any other means.

[luigi bertolotti]

There is a law over here that an Internet sale has a 14-day "cooling-off" period during which the article -in pristine shape-original packing etc.- must be accepted by the store for a full refund. I'm sure other European countries have similar laws.

 

Interesting... does it apply to ANY Internet sale ? I mean private-to-private, business-to-business and mixing of the two ? And... also when you simply place an order through the Net from a published catalog ?

[Berth]

...There has to be thousands of women's shoes and fights sometimes break out when the doors open. I must get a picture sometime of two women armed with Uggs threatening each other

....

 

YES!

[AlanG]

REI had to limit its famous 100% Satisfaction Unlimited Time return policy because so many customers were abusing it. I saw this first hand at their attic sales where they sell the returned goods at very low prices.

 

There was a pair of Shimano bike pedals that were heavily used. The note on the package was simply, "Customer didn't like them anymore." Well worn clothes and hiking boots are returned for no "longer being waterproof," or whatever reasons they come up with.

 

REI now limiting returns to one year | Business & Technology | The Seattle Times

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Rick]

Back on track to the original post. It seems that not only is the camera industry in a recession but the websites that are camera related are probably seeing less traffic and interest.

 

It seems to me that there is not a lot of reason for camera nerds to bring up camera sites because, not much that is significant is being presented.

 

Digital camera technology is becoming boring. There are so many cameras that are capable of great images. Maybe, we are back to the point where creativity and art are the most important aspects of photography. And this is going to be a serious problem for about 98% of the posters on the internet who buy cameras to test them against the previous versions and revel in having something significantly better. It now seems, it just doesn't matter.

 

Good photographs can certainly be made with about any good camera and that includes MFT. Which means, the camera industry and the websites are going into a deep recession.

 

Great lenses seem to be a constant... and the cameras that allow you to shoot them... like the M240:D

Edited April 18, 2014 by RickLeica