wlaidlaw Posted January 21, 2014 Share #21 Posted January 21, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) While we are on the subject..........Are you all using Live View or the EVF when you get these black images? I certainly was (EVF). Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here M240 at -35 degrees. Field report.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jdlaing Posted January 21, 2014 Share #22 Posted January 21, 2014 I suspect that is where the problem lies. I rarely use the EVF or Live View and get no black frames. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 21, 2014 Share #23 Posted January 21, 2014 I was not, but it was 95% certain that it was the card. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobitybob Posted January 21, 2014 Share #24 Posted January 21, 2014 I've never had a problem with my M, no lock ups or ISO640 problems, but yesterday in cold but above freezing temperatures I found that Liveview would not stay on for more than a couple of seconds. At first I thought it was the battery but that was showing 45%. When I got home I found that every other exposure in a sequence of about 20 images was black or at least very under exposed. If you tried to correct this in LR there was a faint image but it was all green! Thaught it may be a card problem so I've reformatted that, but it appears from this thread that it may be another Issue altogether. Never had anything like this with either my M8 or M9 which I used regularly in cold weather. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 21, 2014 Share #25 Posted January 21, 2014 I have asked one of the Beta testers if he would be kind enough to bring this thread to Leica’s attention. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
openuser Posted January 21, 2014 Share #26 Posted January 21, 2014 While we are on the subject..........Are you all using Live View or the EVF when you get these black images? I was getting black images with LV (without evf) and without LV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted January 21, 2014 Share #27 Posted January 21, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry about the trouble. I have used the M for around 2,5 hrs but only in minus 15 C. I had no problems during that time. I used LV, but did not take very many exposures, and the battery had not died during the shootout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted January 21, 2014 Share #28 Posted January 21, 2014 I'd have to agree with this ...... a low volume all metal body and a big volume battery stuck flush with a metal base is a recipe for rapid heating/cooling .... and it is no surprise that the M has flakey performance at both high and low temps. The only way you could really compare if the actual electronics/battery is the issue would be to put both in a freezer for several hours till the whole camera is the same temp and then compare ...... Would be interesting to try with an insulated half case and see if the results were the same .... I suspect not ....... maybe we should get Luigi to make a special sheepskin model for winter use .... nb. as above for the D800 and D4 Nikon states: Operating environment Temperature: 0 to 40°C/32 to 104°; Humidity: Less than 85% (no condensation) Leica M: Temperature: 0 to 40°C ie. none of these cameras are actually designed to work below zero ......... and if you can't keep the core components above this value they will not guarantee 'normal' function I think that this may well be the correct explanation, especially considering the identical advised operating temperatures. The Leica M clearly isn't the right tool for this situation. Having said that I used my M9 for hours in -5 to -15°C in Berlin on a number of occasions some years ago with no problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gilgamesh Posted January 22, 2014 Share #29 Posted January 22, 2014 I alternate between LV and play-back and mostly shoot through the rangefinder window. No EVF for me. No issues the last few days as it's overcast here and far warmer than it normally is at this time of the winter. (Took some cool pictures, pardon the pun in a small coal powered station this morning, maybe 10 small furnaces heating water to heat the homes & businesses & four men in two shifts. The men wore no marks and were as black as …. coal dust! As always, it's amazing what the US $ does & you just stick your nose in, ask, start taking pictures and continue to hang around, I was there an hour+ and will return tomorrow for some 90mm f2 portraits & some off camera lights.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clennan Posted January 22, 2014 Share #30 Posted January 22, 2014 I occasionally use my M240 between -20C and -30C and have not had one single problem. Mind you, I am typically only shooting for a maximum of 30mins or so in this weather. The coldest I used it was -37C and it worked as it should. Battery life sucked but I only used half the capacity by the 30min mark. It was definitely not designed for this weather but seems to work ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 22, 2014 Share #31 Posted January 22, 2014 It was definitely not designed for this weather but seems to work ok. That is a perfect description of not just the camera but of the user as well…; For periods of up to 30 minutes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clennan Posted January 22, 2014 Share #32 Posted January 22, 2014 Exactly. Who really wants to be out in that sort of weather for any longer? Try it and you will see what I mean.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 22, 2014 Share #33 Posted January 22, 2014 .No issues the last few days as it's overcast here and far warmer than it normally is at this time of the winter. Glad you're getting some shots. I've not had the cold weather problems you've had, so am still very happy with the mix of M for wide to 50 and DSLR for long (70-200 on the Canon 5D2). Perfect weight / size combination. I have to say I'm not persuaded by manual focus, unstabilized lenses any more - there is such a thing as progress Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey You Posted January 22, 2014 Share #34 Posted January 22, 2014 It's been -25 Celsius here on and off for the past month. I go out for half an hour at a time, and when I do, I keep the camera under my jacket, removing it only to take images. Naturally the battery works just fine. Despite warnings on this site, my lenses never fog up. I have a jacket which breathes, and so humidity is not a problem. My problem is frozen fingers. I simply can't use the camera while wearing gloves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 22, 2014 Share #35 Posted January 22, 2014 What this thread shows is that some M240’s behave badly at low temperatures and some don’t. The problems can start at or near the low end of the acceptable range. Using the EVF or LV makes the camera much more likely to be problematic. It is just like the problems at the other end of the temperature scale with LV/EVF, where some cameras switch themselves off and others don’t. One might have hoped that just like car manufactures, Leica would have a cold and hot chamber to test this and track down any components or circuits, which give rise to anomalous behaviour. It seems obvious that they don’t. They could have sub-contacted this to one of the highly regarded German testing and certification bureaus, such as TUV. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 22, 2014 Share #36 Posted January 22, 2014 My problem is frozen fingers. I simply can't use the camera while wearing gloves. Something along these lines can be really helpful! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jasmine-Gloves-Thermal-Liner-Glove/dp/B001RDDGAA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted January 22, 2014 Share #37 Posted January 22, 2014 Jaap raised a good question. Is the problem the SD card? Gilgamesh, did you use a CF or SD or both in your Nikon D800? I have used my Nikon D2x to -18C with no problem even though the spec is also 0C. I have come to really like CF cards; they are much more robust than SD cards. I don't think any normally camera equipment without special preparation will work to -35C. Not even an M3. I recall that special servicing was required for the Leica equipment that went to Mt Everest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonil Posted January 22, 2014 Share #38 Posted January 22, 2014 I don't think any normally camera equipment without special preparation will work to -35C. Not even an M3. I recall that special servicing was required for the Leica equipment that went to Mt Everest. Although A perfectly stock, shop bought Olympus was the only camera that would operate on the top of Everest when the first two men got to the top. All other brands failed to take the shot. All hail Olympus! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 22, 2014 Share #39 Posted January 22, 2014 What this thread shows is that some M240’s behave badly at low temperatures and some don’t. The problems can start at or near the low end of the acceptable range. Using the EVF or LV makes the camera much more likely to be problematic. It is just like the problems at the other end of the temperature scale with LV/EVF, where some cameras switch themselves off and others don’t. One might have hoped that just like car manufactures, Leica would have a cold and hot chamber to test this and track down any components or circuits, which give rise to anomalous behaviour. It seems obvious that they don’t. They could have sub-contacted this to one of the highly regarded German testing and certification bureaus, such as TUV. Wilson Problem with that is the price would increase and then everybody would groan....................................more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bephoto Posted January 23, 2014 Share #40 Posted January 23, 2014 Page 253 of your Leica M Instructions Manual says clearly "Operating conditions 0-40°C" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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