More quality Control Issues

[pico]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

[...] Skilled people have difficulty in anticipating unskilled thinking [/Quote]

 

Therein is a thesis of which I identify. What is unskilled thinking?

 

It is not too difficult within the auspices of scholarship to use scholastic metrics to put some of their articles into the bin of bullshit. I find most of their contributions as rife with spurious rhetoric as any ditch-digger of my father's generation which had no concern or worry of certification but none-the-less had an equivalent literacy. So-called scholars made their mark with the establishment of The University when they begged cities to declare them above, for example, The Goliards. I

leave it to the reader to enlighten himself of this, which is true to the spirit if The Goliardi.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[barjohn]

... I wonder whether anyone got their Mercedes replaced at the first sign of problems?

 

Probably not but on the other hand it didn't have to be packed off and shipped to Solms and it probably didn't take 2 weeks for a repair!

[jaapv]

It is probably not made in Germany - the whole world production of the C class will bear a sticker: Made in Tuscaloosa, Alabama…

[wlaidlaw]

It is probably not made in Germany - the whole world production of the C class will bear a sticker: Made in Tuscaloosa, Alabama…:roll eyes:

 

A lot of right hand drive BMW and Mercedes are assembled in South Africa. I provided a scheme to insure the vehicles in transit from South Africa, in special car carrying ships on the Japan-Europe-Japan run. These are often too big to go through the Suez Canal and can conveniently call in at Durban to load vehicles going in both directions (remembering that both Japan, China, India and quite a few other eastern nations drive on the left.

 

Wilson

[hamey]

A lot of right hand drive BMW and Mercedes are assembled in South Africa. I provided a scheme to insure the vehicles in transit from South Africa, in special car carrying ships on the Japan-Europe-Japan run. These are often too big to go through the Suez Canal and can conveniently call in at Durban to load vehicles going in both directions (remembering that both Japan, China, India and quite a few other eastern nations drive on the left.

 

Wilson, only Hong Kong drives on the Left not mainland China.

However also Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, and most African nations including South Africa also I think the west Indies plus many more especially from the old British Empire.

 

 

Ken.

[hamey]

My Daughter's Sony PS4 failed after one month, she rang Sony up in Sydney, they asked her to post it

back to them, they paid for the postage, four days later about 8.50 am, knock on my door with a special

Delivery from Australia Post, Sony had sent my Daughter a brand new PS4.

 

Thats excellent service,

 

Ken.

[k_g_wolf ✝]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Cars don´t do it, but fishes do: they usually start smelling from their heads. The body we

are thinking of round here is covered- well, to some extent - by blackwater. Hope they are

interested in a longtime odourfree environment for LEICA.

 

Decent fish does not live well in b/w.

 

 

Best

GEORG

[lethbrp]

I am also a new Leica owner with a raft of Nikon stuff, but only the 240 and three Leica lenses. I had problems with focussing. I set up a focus testing bed, took a series of photos at various f-stops and distances using a tripod, and even photographed the rangefinder view on an iPod. I had similar problems with the Leica flash.

 

As I was on extended travel in Europe,I brought it to the Lecia dealer in Florence who had no financial investment in me. He arranged to have it sent back to the factory under warranty and it came back within two weeks, with a new body and all lenses recalibrated and low and behold the flash works. I am impressed. I am been similarly impressed with the North American office when I first noticed the flash issues. I wonder whether anyone got their Mercedes replaced at the first sign of problems?

 

I would not be impressed having to send all new equipment back. But I have to agree the customer service is very good. Their service department must be larger than their production facility.

[vipan]

over the past few weeks i have also built a system with m240 with 6 leica lenses. upon delivery there was a tiny but visible scratch on the 35mm/2.0. my dealer threw in a leica uv filter as compensation. other than that, my leica experience has been flawless.

 

i have been using sony nex7 and a7r and canon 5d, each with multiple lenses for the past few years. i never had any issues.

 

if i had any issues with leica, i would be quite irritated, considering the leica system costs far more than all my 3 previous ones.

[jaapv]

I would not be impressed having to send all new equipment back. But I have to agree the customer service is very good. Their service department must be larger than their production facility.

:D

 

No, it isn’t. Their production facility has over 1000 people worldwide, the customer service in Solms a few dozen at most.

[marknorton]

It is probably not made in Germany - the whole world production of the C class will bear a sticker: Made in Tuscaloosa, Alabama…

 

Since when? I visited the C-Class production line in Zindelfingen in September and very impressive it was too. I think some model variants are made in Alabama and at one point, RHD cars were made in South Africa. Like the Golf and 3 series, so many of them are made that they cannot make all they need on a single production line. The ML SUV is made in Alabama and the BMW X5 is made in Spartanburg, South Carolina.

 

I do think the Leica signed quality cards are a nonsense when these errors are occurring. That said, my Mercedes AMG has a signed plate on the engine of the person who built it and I had hoped to see him when I visited AMG in Affalterbach to thank him for this work - his engine has been faultless, the rest of the car has been an unreliable nightmare.

[thighslapper]

Nonsense.

 

..... so you are telling me that expansion of production and taking on new staff has nothing to do with QC issues .......

 

...... and that it is some ingrained incompence present at Leica that they are unwilling to change ?

[CalArts 99]

Since when? I visited the C-Class production line in Zindelfingen in September and very impressive it was too. I think some model variants are made in Alabama and at one point, RHD cars were made in South Africa. Like the Golf and 3 series, so many of them are made that they cannot make all they need on a single production line. The ML SUV is made in Alabama and the BMW X5 is made in Spartanburg, South Carolina.

 

I do think the Leica signed quality cards are a nonsense when these errors are occurring. That said, my Mercedes AMG has a signed plate on the engine of the person who built it and I had hoped to see him when I visited AMG in Affalterbach to thank him for this work - his engine has been faultless, the rest of the car has been an unreliable nightmare.

 

My AMG M156 motor had a signed plate, too. And was built with defective head bolts.

 

I've long since sold the car. It was overall a high maintenance drama queen and unreliable (aside from the blown head gasket from the bad bolts.)

 

The C-Class (at least for the N. American market) will be built in Alabama with the upcoming new designed model. My neighbor has a late C-Class made in S. Africa. She's happy with it and it's been very reliable. Fit and finish is quite good. I think the plant there has received high marks for assembly overall.

[dugby]

Since when? I visited the C-Class production line in Zindelfingen in September and very impressive it was too. I think some model variants are made in Alabama and at one point, RHD cars were made in South Africa. Like the Golf and 3 series, so many of them are made that they cannot make all they need on a single production line. The ML SUV is made in Alabama and the BMW X5 is made in Spartanburg, South Carolina.

 

I do think the Leica signed quality cards are a nonsense when these errors are occurring. That said, my Mercedes AMG has a signed plate on the engine of the person who built it and I had hoped to see him when I visited AMG in Affalterbach to thank him for this work - his engine has been faultless, the rest of the car has been an unreliable nightmare.

 

My Australian delivered RHD CLS500 is made in Germany.

[dgc]

Apologies for going off topic with the Mercedes thread ...

 

I only became a member of the forum soon after I bought my M7 and, after ordering the M240. If I started to read the forum before buying into Leica I may well have decided to stay with Canon. Without tempting fate, I have had no problems with any of my Leica equipment, though I am probably a lot less aware of the capabilities of the Leica system than the more knowledgeable users of this site.

 

However, I would be interested to determine the percentage of defects and returns of the M240 as I expect more people are prone to comment on a negative issues. As an experienced moaner (as my wife frequently tells me) I tend to notice that negativity lasts in the memory longer and, therefore, are these problems/ defects greater than they actually are. I totally agree, though, given the cost of the Leica system, the frequency of problems should be a very small percentage and customer service should be better.

 

I saw a poll in the MM section of the forum and wondered whether it would be possible to do something similar with the issues of the M240 ? Clearly, this would be non-scientific given that many owners may not take part and many owners may not even be on this forum (I know, unbelievable!). I would suggest the following questions as a start:

 

Do you own a Leica M240?

Have you had a problem with the M240 ?

Was the problem identified when first using the Leica ?

Has a problem arisen since using the Leica, say, after the first month ?

Has your M240 been returned to Solms ?

Was the problem to do with the lugs ?

Was the problem to do with the sensor ?

Was the problem to do with the rangefinder ?

 

Was the problem to do with the ... and so on

 

Was the problem resolved with firmware updates.

Is Leica good value for money ?

 

The list could go on and any psychologist/ pollsters may be better able to word the questions. This maybe better served in another section of the forum, but as many threads tend to end up in the same place, it appears to be as good as place any !

 

David

[Naper]

I wonder whether anyone got their Mercedes replaced at the first sign of problems?

 

Yes Mercedes will replace a car, happened to me. I bought a new C Class in 1997. It packed in on my way home from the dealer, 35 km on the car. Had to be towed back. The dealer principal assured me the car would be repaired to my satisfaction. I wasn't pleased with the situation and didn't have much confidence in a car that didn't make it home on day one. The principal was very sympathetic. With out hesitation he offered a complete refund or replacement. I took the offer of replacement, however they didn't have one equipped the way I wanted so they ordered one from Germany and loaned me, without cost, a new car. Three months latter the new car arrived.

The dealer could have insisted I keep the original car and I would have been unhappy for the time I owed it. Most likely never buy another MB. I was impressed with the professional way this was handled, in fact just took delivery of my 4th Mercedes.

Good ofter sale customer service works.

[jcraf]

 

I do think the Leica signed quality cards are a nonsense when these errors are occurring.

 

Never seen the same 'signature' twice.

[tundraline]

Yes Mercedes will replace a car, happened to me. I bought a new C Class in 1997. It packed in on my way home from the dealer, 35 km on the car. Had to be towed back. The dealer principal assured me the car would be repaired to my satisfaction. I wasn't pleased with the situation and didn't have much confidence in a car that didn't make it home on day one. The principal was very sympathetic. With out hesitation he offered a complete refund or replacement. I took the offer of replacement, however they didn't have one equipped the way I wanted so they ordered one from Germany and loaned me, without cost, a new car. Three months latter the new car arrived.

The dealer could have insisted I keep the original car and I would have been unhappy for the time I owed it. Most likely never buy another MB. I was impressed with the professional way this was handled, in fact just took delivery of my 4th Mercedes.

Good ofter sale customer service works.

 

When I lived in the Netherlands for three years one thing I could count on seeing just about every time I got on the freeway was a Mercedes broken down somewhere on the side of the road. The Dutch guy my firm employed for their taxi needs had a fleet of Mercedes cars, all of which he eventually switched out for Fords because his Mercedes fleet proved so unreliable. He said the big problem with Mercedes cars was their insanely complicated, unreliable and difficult to diagnose electronics/electrical/software systems. I cannot help wondering whether there might not be something similar going on at Leica, where their optical and mechanical skills are obviously second to none, but where their industrial software/firmware/electrical engineering skills might not be quite up to the standards we see in high tech US and Japanese products.

[algrove]

It baffles me that after all these posts a direct point is missing, even though often alluded to.

 

Leica cameras/lenses cost a lot.

 

If Leica had better QC (and design--thinking about the APO50, the recalled 21 SEM, the M240 lug nuts*, etc., etc. to mention a few), over time the cost of repair for bad QC would diminish.

 

Then Leica would either increase their bottom line from this "new" QC approach, pass on the savings to us or a mix of both. Take your pick.

 

So, if repair work became less, then the CS staff could be smaller or with the current staff size any repair could be faster, therefore making customers happier.

 

Those signature cards are becoming less impressive these days.

 

*Did anyone notice the new looking lug nuts on the Ivy M240?

 

CS Solms

 

I was there this past Summer for many hours (in the lobby). I frankly could not believe how many employees were taking "coffee" breaks throughout the entire morning by walking over to a nearby store to have a break for either coffee, smoke, smart phone messages or whatever.

 

I witnessed way more than 15 different employees walk out and then come back many minutes later. Not many (85%) looked as though they had reached 30 years old yet. As I sat there watching all this, I contemplated how much real world experience these young employees actually had. How would they feel if they had paid many months of their wages and had to wait weeks upon weeks for repairs that should not have been necessary in the first place.

 

While at CS Solms, I inquired about my APO50 that had been dropped and was sent to them by Leica USA (along with my M240 lug nuts) . They told me it had just been sent back the week before. Once back home I had an envelope from Leica NJ waiting for me.

 

It was the Service Invoice for the APO50, without the lens.

 

The Leica NJ CS Department had written a complaint about the Solms repair. It stated:

Worked Performed:

APO-Summicron-M 1:2 /50mm ASPH

Complaint: Mount on lens not smooth; Critical Focus: Front Focusing; Inspected & evaluated by (the Leica NJ CS Manager)

Please Expedite (back to Germany)

Being sent back to Quality Control Dept-Test pictures will be made. (Instead of CS Solms)

 

The lens was sent in the first week of June, 2013 and was finally received back on 12/10/13 after Leica NJ had to send it back to Germany in mid August 2013.

 

So my take is that the inexperienced CS staff going on break cost me another few months of not having a very expensive lens. Each one of these employees would have to work many months to accumulate enough funds after taxes to purchase such a lens if they had no other living expenses to pay.

 

It was after this experience that Leica began having all APO50 reworked by the QC Department instead of the CS Department.

 

So don't ever tell me that Leica has their act together since I KNOW they do not.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

Umm… Customer Service is not in the main building but a few Kms away… I am a bit puzzled about the shop - the factory is on an industrial area.