Leica M-E as a first camera?

[Torgian]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

So I may be going in over my head here, but then again I'm kind of used to that...

 

I'm considering getting a Leica M-E as a first camera. Granted, I've had other cameras before, mostly point and shoots and one Nikon DSLR that got stolen a couple years ago. I never did use that DSLR that much though, considering it was heavy, fairly large and was a pain to carry around.

 

I've recently gotten the camera bug though, because I'm getting interested in street photography again... and now I'm heading to Japan for a couple years to learn the language at a school.

 

I've never used a rangefinder extensively before. The most I did was use my mom's old rangefinder, one she has had for... probably about 40 years now.

 

 

I've tried several micro 4/3 cameras that are out right now. Panasonic GM7, Olympus OM-1, and lately a Fuji X Pro 1. I thought I would go for the Fuji (optical viewfinder) but despite the rangefinder body style, the viewfinder is quite worthless for manual focusing. THere's no focus square in the middle like in a real rangefinder, and the lens focus ring just...spins forever.

 

I know that using a Leica may be something in over my head, but I do know what I like and don't like.

 

I DO like optical viewfinders. I think they're great, and I don't get that "black screen" effect with an optical that I do with an EVF or LCD screen when I take a shot. I've found the EVF to be atrocious, although the Olympus does a better job than the others I've seen.

 

I also like the ability to see out of my left eye what is coming into the frame as I'm setting up a shot, which I think is great for street photography.

 

With the Olympus, that's more of a challenge since the EVF is in the middle.

 

And, hell, let's face it. I do like the range finder style. It does remind me of my mom's old rangefinder, so I have some melancholy associated with that style. How I like the looks may make me a bit pretentious, but so be it if it does.

 

So basically nobody else is making a digital rangefinder other than Leica. I wish someone did, if just because of the price, but it is what it is.

 

So I figured that if I sold my bike, tv, and some furniture I could afford one and a lens. I'll have to sell everything anyway since I'm moving to Japan for two years.

 

Anyways, to make a long story short (yes too late I know) would the M-E be a good one to start with? I considered getting a film rangefinder, but being as I'll be living in a dorm room, I won't really have the ability to develop photos, so digital will have to be the way to go.

 

What can you suggest? If I did end up buying one, what would be ONE lens I may look at to have at all times? I was guessing either a 35 or 50mm; keep in mind that I'll be doing city and street shooting photos, with maybe some occasional landscape if (when) I come across something nice.

 

I know I can get some cheaper voitlander (sp?) lenses, but I would like to have at least one Leica lens to go with the body. I have seen that one can get Leica lenses cheaper on ebay, so I may go that route as well.

 

What do you suggest I study up on in order to learn more about manual cameras and such?

 

Feel free to throw all your opinions and thoughts at me. I have a thick skin (being a vet helps lol) so don't feel like you have to soften your thoughts

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Ecar]

Used M9 + Summarit 35mm would be my choice.

[jaapv]

Second the Summarit, but if funds allow the ME would be an excellent choice as well. Basically it is an M9 but new.

[alan c. davis]

Get the M-E, I did. A new one will come with the 2 year passport warranty which is 2 years peace of mind. Then you won't have to worry about whether the secondhand M9 you buy has been dropped, if there any issues with it which prompted the owner to move it on, who it has been sleeping with and so on.

[Guest malland]

I'd definitely go for a new M-E with a two-year guarantee rather than a used M9. As for lenses, it's matter of taste in terms of the focal length that you like. A good combination is a 50mm with a 28mm. I prefer the 28mm for street photography to the 35. Having lived in Japan, I can tell you that 28mm is much more popular there than 35mm so, if you are going to be influenced by Japanese photography, that would be another reason for a 28 rather than a 35.

 

Older 50mm Leica lenses are great. I have been recently using a DR-Summicron (Dual-Range Summicron-50) with the cam filled down, so it focuses only to 1m. There is another version of this lens without the close-range attachment, called the Rigid (7-element) Summicron, which is identical in design. Both should be available at low cost. I don't know the cost now, but I paid US600 for my DR-Summicorn some years ago,

 

In buying one make sure that the coating is not scratched and that the lens isn't fogged. If it is, it's worthwhile to have it cleaned, which I have recently done with my DR-Summicron: the before-and-after difference is stunning. Before the fogging was removed the lens flared so badly that I couldn't shoot into the light. The resolution on this lens is great and the color rendition is slightly pastel, which, in my view, works well with the M9/M-E (see the picture below).

 

As for the 28mm, the Summicron-28 is fantastic, but if you want a less expensive one, the Elmarit-28 is also very good.

 

 

 

Leica M9 | DR-Summicron | ISO 320 | f/4.0 / 1/500 sec

Paris

 

 

 

—Mitch/Chiang Mai

Looking for Baudelaire [WIP]

[Adrian Lord]

I can't think of a better starter camera than the M-E!

[Mike T 1969]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Japan!? Sounds exciting. If you have the time to learn, Leica rangefinder is a wonderful world. People rarely go back once they have used Leica M cameras. The M-E is a great camera. I'd get it for all the obvious reasons: same as the classic M9, new, warranty, road proven etc.

 

As for lenses just get one and work with it for a year. 35MM is a pretty classic choice as is a 50MM. Although 28MM is also great for street it will be slightly less versatile if you want to get into portraits and other styles.

 

Once you decide on the 50/35 then you need to select how "fast" the lens is. Summicron designates F2 type lenses and the Summilux designates F1.4 lenses. The new Summarits are ever so slighlty slower than the Summicron but to many a negligible difference.

 

Personally I think the 35MM summicron is a classic hard to beat lens.

 

I told a friend recently who buys a new camera every year but has always thought Leica too expensive, buy a Leica once and you'll use it for life. And on that note: life is too short to waste time with a so-so camera. Buy a Lecia now. You will not be sorry.

[Stealth3kpl]

The 35 Summaron f2.8 is a nice old lens that you'll be able to source for about £500. It performs very well.

Pete

[earleygallery]

I considered getting a film rangefinder, but being as I'll be living in a dorm room, I won't really have the ability to develop photos, so digital will have to be the way to go.

 

My understanding is that the Japanese are very much into their film cameras, I've seen photos posted here of camera stores there with piles of film in stock, and I'm assuming that commercial processing is readily available there, so maybe you should consider a film M?

 

Bear in mind that you will still need to PP your M9/ME images. Presumably you'll have access to a computer for this.

[Torgian]

So I've never done any post processing with photos before, is it very difficult? Why would I need to PP an image from an M9/ME?

 

And yes, I do have a macbook that I am using (with japanese keyboard!)

 

How does the m9/me stand up to low light situations? I can imagine myself going out to take street photos during dusk/night for those nice city street shots. I do like the lights of the city at night and would like to capture that.

 

I head the m240 is better at low light, but it is also 1500 more expensive, and currently in back order from all the online shops I saw.

[earleygallery]

If you're not going to shoot RAW you're really not getting the full potential from your images, especially on the M9/ME which - as I understand it - doesn't always produce reliable jpegs.

 

It's rather like buying the best vintage wine to use for cooking.

 

OK if you just want a Leica rangefinder, and want digital, there's not much else to choose from, apart from a s/h M8., but if you're just after simple out of camera jpegs to share on Facebook etc., you're probably better off - financially and technically - with something else.

[Guest malland]

...How does the m9/me stand up to low light situations ...

There is a long thread on high-ISO here, which describes a technique that makes the M9/M-E into a good camera for night shooting. In the series linked below my signatures there are night shots using this technique.

 

I agree with James that, if you're not going to do serious photography and post-processing, there is no point on getting a Leica.

 

—Mitch/Chiang Mai

Tristes Tropiques [WIP]

[tobey bilek]

I always find security an issue with expensive cameras.

 

I love my M8 and M9P, but I never let them sit unattended.

 

A nikon D7100 makes fine images, is lighter than a Leica, about the same size. Value is $1500.

 

An ME and Summarit is $7500. A Summilux is $4000, but a beautiful lens.

 

Film is plentiful in Japan.

 

I avoid used cameras.

[Jeff S]

OK if you just want a Leica rangefinder, and want digital, there's not much else to choose from, apart from a s/h M8., but if you're just after simple out of camera jpegs to share on Facebook etc., you're probably better off - financially and technically - with something else.

 

+1

 

There was a film workflow, and now there's a digital workflow; each requires a learning curve, and a commitment. Otherwise there are plenty of less expensive gear options that can provide adequate results.

 

If you want to pursue the digital workflow, you might consider an M8 (or M8.2) and use the savings for a monitor and printer (or at least a print service to start). If low light work is your emphasis, the M8 or M-E (M9) will work, but there are certainly lots of other options, with potentially better results, but with trade-offs.

 

If you buy Leica, even used, do so through a reputable dealer, with warranty. I bought a mint used M8.2 that still works fine as as back-up to my M, and is a stellar b/w camera in any case.

 

Jeff

[pgk]

I've never used a rangefinder extensively before......I know that using a Leica may be something in over my head, but I do know what I like and don't like.

 

Feel free to throw all your opinions and thoughts at me. I have a thick skin (being a vet helps lol) so don't feel like you have to soften your thoughts

M8 and used 35mm Summarit. This will tell you whether or not you like using rangefinders and you are likely to be able to trade up or change system if you don't like them with least loss. Rangefinders are not for everyone but if you are intent on trying one then I'd suggest opting for the least loss making version initially. Hey, you might even make money one an M8 & Summarit if you buy well enough.

[BerndReini]

Get an M-E and whatever 35mm lens you can afford (used summicron aspherical if you an afford it.) I have been using my M9 since it was released and my M8 before it. I came from a Canon 5D and I have never looked back. Get your gear insured for peace of mind and have a great trip. Oh and shoot Raw and use Lightroom. The amount of post-processing required is really minimal for 95% of all photos.

[Duane Pandorf]

The Leica M-E is my first Leica. I've owned it for almost a year and have over 15k actuations. I've been very happy with it and the rangefinder experience.

 

I'm not sure if you're in the US or not but you can rent one and a lens through Lensrentals. You may want to give that a try along with downloading the trial version of Lightroom. A full copy comes with the purchase of the camera.

 

In this way you can get a feel of the camera and a chance to process the images you take.

 

From there it will just be a matter of what lens combo you'd like to start with. It's very easy to get swept away with all the different options and opinions that may come forth.

 

By "investing" in a Leica lens to put on your new camera whatever you may decide if that lens FOV doesn't fit your shooting style you develop you can easily sell it to fund another.

 

But I would begin with a 35mm or 50mm lens to start.

 

Let us know how you make out.

[bideford]

M8 and used 35mm Summarit. This will tell you whether or not you like using rangefinders and you are likely to be able to trade up or change system if you don't like them with least loss. Rangefinders are not for everyone but if you are intent on trying one then I'd suggest opting for the least loss making version initially. Hey, you might even make money one an M8 & Summarit if you buy well enough.

 

+1

 

Have a look in the M8 thread for more info. Also plenty of good non Leica cheap lenses around to start with.

 

James

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[DigitalHeMan]

My understanding is that the Japanese are very much into their film cameras, I've seen photos posted here of camera stores there with piles of film in stock, and I'm assuming that commercial processing is readily available there, so maybe you should consider a film M?

 

Bear in mind that you will still need to PP your M9/ME images. Presumably you'll have access to a computer for this.

 

Second this. Film is still very big in Japan, supply is plenty, and easy to get developed - lots of developing places in the big cities like Tokyo, and even the smaller towns typically have one or two one hour places.

 

Last year I was in a similar position - wanting to try a rangefinder, and off to Japan for a trip (albeit only for a couple of weeks). I has already bought a second hand 35mm Summarit locally, and traveled to Tokyo without a camera. The evening I arrived I went out into Shinjuku, walked around the numerous camera shops, and picked up a new condition M6 for around 900€

 

Ultimately I bought myself an M-E and kept the M6, but I could have sold it on again without losing too much money.

 

Film is fun and I think the slowness of shooting it makes it a very good learning experience for moving to rangefinder.

[Torgian]

So I didn't know I could rent a Leica through that website that was suggested. I went ahead and put in the order to rent an M-240 with a Summarit 35mm lens. I'll let you guys know what I decide and post up some photos up here as well. I'll receive it on Wednesday.