Different Focus Damping on different M-lenses?

[findranger]

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Hi,

 

I own three Leica M Lenses (all second hand purchases in very good to excellent condition, all tabbed):

 

Summicron 50mm (late Type 4)

Summicron 35mm Asph.

Elmarit 28mm Asph.

 

The first of the bunch shows a much(!) stronger damping on the focus ring and is much smoother (also harder) to operate, which I like. The two Asphs are much looser, I even change the focus by accident when operating the aperture ring on the 28 Asph (which might be due to the small size of the lens)

 

Are the Asphs 'worn out' and might it get worse? Or did Leica change this on purpose with newer lenses (the 50 is significantly older).

It's not a big deal, I'm just curious.

 

Thank you.

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[TomB_tx]

Older lenses often get stiffer as the lubes dry out. I have 35 & 50 Summicrons from 1969 that have never been serviced, and both got stiffer than when new.

[marknorton]

I've just had my old pre-ASPH 50mm Summilux serviced and the cost was higher than expected because the grease used to lubricate the focussing mount had dried out and hardened making the lens very stiff to focus. It's come back transformed and operates like any modern lens.

 

So the variation in your lenses is probably down to that, not any design or manufacturing change on

Leica's part.

[IWC Doppel]

There are also mechanical differences where glass elements are heavier, some move more elements eg floating element and the leverage is different size of lens barrel and turn to movement ratio.

 

Compare to a new lens for current models is a good guide. These can vary a little too.

[IWC Doppel]

PS no the lenses won't be worn out. If you find they are too slack you could get the serviced. Check for play, there shouldn't be any

[findranger]

Check for play, there shouldn't be any

 

There's no play, operation is just a little slacky.

But maybe it's normal and the older lens got stiff(?).

[IWC Doppel]

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There's no play, operation is just a little slacky.

But maybe it's normal and the older lens got stiff(?).

 

Yes probably the case. I'd speak to Leica and perhaps go in and discuss, Leica Mayfair are very helpful and from memory there is some flexibility in set up if requested when serviced

[jaapv]

The focusing damping is achieved by manually matching parts of the mount by a group of specialized ladies. Hence there may be some variation between lenses, even of the same series.

[semi-ambivalent]

Hi,

 

I own three Leica M Lenses (all second hand purchases in very good to excellent condition, all tabbed):

 

Summicron 50mm (late Type 4)

Summicron 35mm Asph.

Elmarit 28mm Asph.

 

The first of the bunch shows a much(!) stronger damping on the focus ring and is much smoother (also harder) to operate, which I like. The two Asphs are much looser, I even change the focus by accident when operating the aperture ring on the 28 Asph (which might be due to the small size of the lens)

 

Are the Asphs 'worn out' and might it get worse? Or did Leica change this on purpose with newer lenses (the 50 is significantly older).

It's not a big deal, I'm just curious.

 

Thank you.

 

Purchased used? There is no way of knowing how many miles the helicoids have been moved in their lives so far, no matter what the cosmetics of the lenses. When and how were they serviced, if ever?

 

I own these three and my V.4 50 is looser than the 28 Elmarit but seems to "stick" momentarity before it begins to rotate. The 28 (one year old) might be a tiny bit tighter than the 35 (also a year old). I attribute it entirely to the 50's age and not machining decisions but I can not prove anything. I have also moved the 28's aperture ring without meaning to, and my fingers are not large.They all work wonderfully. A delightful trio.

[findranger]

I own these three and my V.4 50 is looser than the 28 Elmarit [...] I attribute it entirely to the 50's age and not machining decisions

 

Interesting. Cause TomB_tx claimed the same for the opposite (getting stickyer not slackyer with time).

 

They all work wonderfully. A delightful trio.

 

Indeed. But I have to admit that I need some time to adapt to the differences when changing lenses (espacially when changing to the slackyer ones).

 

I just checked them again, they're far from 'loose', perfectly usable. I guess I would just like them a little more damped.

[lct]

...there may be some variation between lenses, even of the same series.

+1

[semi-ambivalent]

Interesting. Cause TomB_tx claimed the same for the opposite (getting stickyer not slackyer with time).

 

Indeed. But I have to admit that I need some time to adapt to the differences when changing lenses (espacially when changing to the slackyer ones).

 

I just checked them again, they're far from 'loose', perfectly usable. I guess I would just like them a little more damped.

 

I meant the 50 needs less pressure on the tab to move it compared to the 28 (or 35) once it actually begins moving. My son recently educated me about the difference between static and kinetic friction. That might be what I am trying to describe. On the 50 when I begin to push the tab there is the slightest moment where it resists, then it begins to move. Once it's moving it requires less force than do either of the other two. But it's really, really subtle; the fingers are very good at recording this kind of input. There is no looseness in the lens as in "lateral slop of the lens cell because the filler grease has gotten old and shrunk". It is a 344xxxx lens. I've just been playing with it and damned if I can feel that bit of stickiness now. The "easierness" is still there though. I'm sure any number of repair persons can increase the damping for you.

[findranger]

I'm sure any number of repair persons can increase the damping for you.

 

Sounds promising. Some experiences here? Expensive?

[wda]

My current Elmarit 28mm has always been a shade too easy to focus accidentally. It is such a good lens that I have never felt the need to have it tightened; I just double check it before shooting.

[philipus]

My 50 Summilux Asph has with usage become quite loose. Not disturbingly so, rather quite pleasantly easy to focus.

 

My 35 Summilux Asph II (FLE), however, is still as stiff as when I got it. And it's been used almost as much as the 50 Asph.

 

My 50 Summilux pre-Asph LTM is as tough to focus as my 35, even though it lacks a floating element. This is my only chrome M lens.

 

My 50 Summicron III is easy to focus, as is my 90 Elmarit-M.

 

Not sure what all this means. I suspect it is a combination of amount of usage and lens design.

 

I would, however, really dislike if focus is so easily adjusted that it changes if the ring is touched while turning the aperture ring. That would annoy me and I would have it adjusted.

 

Cheers

Philip

[Erik Gunst Lund]

The focusing damping is achieved by manually matching parts of the mount by a group of specialized ladies. Hence there may be some variation between lenses, even of the same series.

 

On the Leica factory tour this year we heard/saw how the M lens focusing helicoils where 'grinded' together by hand/feel by a guy...

[findranger]

I would, however, really dislike if focus is so easily adjusted that it changes if the ring is touched while turning the aperture ring. That would annoy me and I would have it adjusted.

 

It's definitely the case with my 28 Asph, but maybe that's a tribute to its small size.

Anybody else experienced this (not) with this lens?

 

On the 50 when I begin to push the tab there is the slightest moment where it resists, then it begins to move. Once it's moving it requires less force than do either of the other two. But it's really, really subtle

 

That's exactly what I experience with the newer Asph lenses (28/35) and NOT the older 50/IV. The 50/IV starts very smooth without the tiniest sudden movement and accelerates in a smooth way (on the other hand its not the fastest lens to focus with).

So its the other way around with my lenses.

[wda]

It's definitely the case with my 28 Asph, but maybe that's a tribute to its small size.

Anybody else experienced this (not) with this lens?...

I was once very frustrated when buying a used 90mm macro from a dealer who returned the lens to Leica for servicing. When it was returned to me, the focusing accuracy was improved but the other fault remained. When I adjusted the aperture, the lens unlocked into the collapsing position (the lens extends from the body in use and collapses into the body at rest). I gave up and returned the lens. I am sure it could have been fixed, but I had lost four months in vain and had lost confidence in this specimen.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jeff S]

Hence there may be some variation between lenses, even of the same series.

 

And, in addition, some bad and/or aging grease, as Mark notes above, and consistent with my experience here.

 

Jeff

[jaapv]

On the Leica factory tour this year we heard/saw how the M lens focusing helicoils where 'grinded' together by hand/feel by a guy...

He must be the new kid on the block.