AlanG Posted December 11, 2013 Share #181 Posted December 11, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) With the DMR and M8, APS-H (1.3x) is a bit of a "Leica format" Although it was introduced by Canon. No offense but I think Kodak made the the first APS-H camera - the DCS 460. But Canon kept the format going for quite a while before dropping it about a year ago by replacing the 1DIV with the full frame 1DX. Well perhaps this makes more sense for Leica than a medium format twin lens reflex. Even with a standard thickness sensor cover glass, correcting for M wides might be easier due to the crop factor. And the S2 was not quite medium format just as this is not quite full frame. And I could see how Leica would want to differentiate this from smaller APS-C and M4/3rd competitors without also competing with the M full frame system. But overall, I don't think this is a good idea. The lenses will be larger than APS-C lenses and not much smaller than full frame ones. If any third party companies are allowed to use the mount, they will probably just supply full frame lenses and not make anything special for this format. (Canon never made special lenses for APS-H either.) I can't see how a salesperson can explain to a well off newbie that this is significantly better than APS-C models yet they really shouldn't bother going all the way to full frame. What anyone says in a Leica store is another matter. With the release of the small A7 it seems to me there is no need for a camera between FF and APS-C. With the A7r, you not only get FF, you can also use smaller APS lenses in 15MP crop mode. What's not to like? Heck the newest Nikon full frame DSLR only has 16MP in total. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 11, 2013 Posted December 11, 2013 Hi AlanG, Take a look here CEO Alfred Schopf and future products. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
AlanG Posted December 11, 2013 Share #182 Posted December 11, 2013 I noticed today that Sony's store has discounted the Nex 3N with 16-50 zoom to $400. And on EBAY it sells for around $370. The Nex 6 with 16-50 is $750 at the Sony store. So between the A7 at the full frame end and discounts at the APS end, the price pressure is definitely on for the other manufacturers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 11, 2013 Share #183 Posted December 11, 2013 That rumour just recycles what Stefan Daniel said some time ago - APS-C or bigger. I understand Leica's commitment to develop an AF line of lenses, but what I don't get is why they would develop a new line of lenses with a new mount (presumably). Making a new camera, even in APS-H format would be chicken feed compared to the cost of developing a new line of lenses. To my mind, the starting point will surely be continuing the M mount, and adding AF lenses and perhaps zoom? If they made an M8 style camera with live view and built in EVF, without the optical rangefinder it would surely be cheaper. Beautifully wrapped in Leica quality styling, and supplied with an M mount AF lens it might fill a market gap. It would then appeal to people wanting more than the X camera, with interchangeable lenses and access to legacy M mount lenses. Leica could then add to the AF M mount lenses, and provide zooms etc without upsetting those who insist that all M cameras have to have an optical viewfinder. I wouldn't buy it, but plenty might. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJH Posted December 11, 2013 Share #184 Posted December 11, 2013 I would really like to see someone do something unique and different in the digital world such as a digital XPAN or a square format sensor or just more cameras with true multi-format sensors like the Panasonic GH2 had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 11, 2013 Share #185 Posted December 11, 2013 Plenty of new Cameras coming in J-February: NEX-7 successor, low end OMD, GH4, Fujica ST, Leica FF and Samsung NF1 | Mirrorless Rumors Leica: Leica will launch a new mirrorless system with EVF and AF lenses. Primes will be designed and fabricated in Germany. The zooms are made by Panasonic in Japan. The camera should cost close to $2000 and have a bigger than ASP-C sensor (FF or less big). 1.3x crop? that would be more than fine. At that price and with M8 sized sensor would be good.... so better if with a mount that can adapt M lenses (unless they decide for M mount... but my guess is they want to "go thinner" on body) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted December 12, 2013 Share #186 Posted December 12, 2013 Plenty of new Cameras coming in J-February: NEX-7 successor, low end OMD, GH4, Fujica ST, Leica FF and Samsung NF1 | Mirrorless Rumors As an OOT side note... the rumors about Fuji "ST" and Pentax "LX" confirm my feeling that the "Digital - oldSLR - styled" (started by Oly) is a fashionable trend which has a niche of its own... ... I heard a pair of Nikonist friends telling me "Wow, have you seen the new Nikon digital ?" ... it seemed that the tech content was largely overcame by the look... (but.... of course we leicistes aren't second to none in this... ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted December 12, 2013 Share #187 Posted December 12, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) "Organic" sensors, multilayer sensors, sensors with global shutters, multiexposure sensors... (SR5) Sony sensor revolution: First “non-Bayer” sensors coming in 2015. | sonyalpharumors More image size (number of pixels) is not the hot selling argument of the past... but electronics never stop... I would like to see thinner sensors, multilayer sensors and multiexposure sensors (like those employed by Arri, made by Cypress) in future Leica cameras. Prototypes in Photokina? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted December 12, 2013 Share #188 Posted December 12, 2013 With the DMR and M8, APS-H (1.3x) is a bit of a "Leica format" Although it was introduced by Canon. Super35mm would be a better marketing slogan... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted December 12, 2013 Share #189 Posted December 12, 2013 Prototypes in Photokina? Yep. Of the M240-P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgmb Posted December 12, 2013 Share #190 Posted December 12, 2013 I would really like to see someone do something unique and different in the digital world such as a digital XPAN or a square format sensor or just more cameras with true multi-format sensors like the Panasonic GH2 had. I too have longed for a digital XPAN as I love that aspect ratio for landscape. But as you point out, a more practical approach would be to offer multi-format sensor, like the Leica D-Lux 6 (Lumix LX7) with the ability to switch from a panoramic 16:9 to 3:2 to 4:3 to 1:1 with a twist of a lens ring. Shooting with this camera I am amazed at how often I use this feature depending on the subject. With high-resolution sensors, this becomes even more advantageous. On the Sony A7R, for example, few are aware that you can also shoot stills in 16:9 mode and still maintain 30 megapixel resolution! Not to mention with the Sweep Panorama mode, one can go even wider. This camera may be the closest yet to a digital XPAN. Since Leica is partnering with Panasonic on this forthcoming camera, one can hope they incorporate a multi-format sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted December 12, 2013 Share #191 Posted December 12, 2013 Plenty of new Cameras coming in J-February: NEX-7 successor, low end OMD, GH4, Fujica ST, Leica FF and Samsung NF1 | Mirrorless Rumors Leica: Leica will launch a new mirrorless system with EVF and AF lenses. Primes will be designed and fabricated in Germany. The zooms are made by Panasonic in Japan. The camera should cost close to $2000 and have a bigger than ASP-C sensor (FF or less big). Apart from the stuff we already know from the recent interview with Alfred Schopf there is not much truth to be found in this rumor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janki Posted December 12, 2013 Share #192 Posted December 12, 2013 Michael, - it feels like you know more about this new Leica system camera than you want to tell us? Come on, - let us know a few more absolutely certain specifications! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted December 12, 2013 Share #193 Posted December 12, 2013 Michael, - it feels like you know more about this new Leica system camera than you want to tell us? Come on, - let us know a few more absolutely certain specifications! Well, you know the old saying … I could tell you more, but then I would have to shoot you … Anyway, according to Alfred Schopf, Leica is working on a new system, probably with an APS-C sensor, including a new line of AF lenses. This info is to be trusted – he’s the CEO for crying out loud. Apart from this info from a reliable source there is something I know and something I don’t know for certain, like when the new system will be launched – except that it won’t be in February. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted December 12, 2013 Share #194 Posted December 12, 2013 it won’t be in February. February in which year? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted December 12, 2013 Share #195 Posted December 12, 2013 February in which year? Any year … Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted December 13, 2013 Share #196 Posted December 13, 2013 Anyway, according to Alfred Schopf, Leica is working on a new system, probably with an APS-C sensor, including a new line of AF lenses. This info is to be trusted – he’s the CEO for crying out loud.... . Can't argue with that. An X Vario with interchangeable lenses would not be much of a stretch. Maybe a built in EVF too. No word on the twin lens reflex rumor I heard somewhere? It does occur to me that if Leica did want to make a FF EVF autofocus system it could make sense to retain the M mount and just add electrical contacts on the new body and new lenses... Instead of making a thinner body and having an adapter for M lenses. That way the new AF lenses could also be used on the M with EVF. But this all seems unlikely I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted December 13, 2013 Share #197 Posted December 13, 2013 It does occur to me that if Leica did want to make a FF EVF autofocus system it could make sense to retain the M mount and just add electrical contacts on the new body and new lenses... Instead of making a thinner body and having an adapter for M lenses. That way the new AF lenses could also be used on the M with EVF. But this all seems unlikely I guess. Unlikely, yes, but not illogical. I agree that when building a new system these days, most pundits would expect it to be at least FF-ready. Bringing the M mount into the 21st century in the way you describe would make sense to me. But it seams Leica chose APS-C, and frankly, there's a lot to be said for that format. I mean, it will be good enough for 90% of all the photos taken today, so, there's a huge market right there. I had two NEX 7's for more than a year and was quite happy with the format. BTW, I think Michael has been very co-operative in this thread without breaking his NDA, thanks for that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted December 13, 2013 Share #198 Posted December 13, 2013 A new APS-C system is one thing... and a future evolution of the M system is a different thing. The new APS-C system may be interesting, if... the excellence in optical quality is the goal. That would be the appeal of the system. Olympus and Fuji are aiming at the same target with "pro" and Zeiss-labeled lenses... but, Leica is Leica. Peter Karbe: A Look through the Vario-Elmar Lens . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted December 18, 2013 Share #199 Posted December 18, 2013 Michael Reichmann about the full frame myth: Full Frame Myth . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 18, 2013 Share #200 Posted December 18, 2013 Not a word about DoF? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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